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Author Topic: PSK ID  (Read 2778 times)
K4HXC2
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Posts: 51




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« on: July 25, 2012, 10:22:37 AM »

Station ID is required by the FCC. However I recall there's a bit of latitude on how often.

So on PSK you might see:

"aaaa de bbbb, Good morning Joe, How are you?, aaaa de bbbb kn"

but what might be better is:

"aaaa de bbbb, gm Joe, how ru?, kn

Half as much yet says the same thing.  I've seen some folks end with k or kn without the call
But I've also been chastised for doing it myself.

What say you all??
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Dennis, WK1A
Formally K4DAZ
In honor of Dad, K4HXC(sk)
AG6WT
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Posts: 431




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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 10:41:00 AM »

You'd have to look up the FCC rules to be sure but I think the requirement is that you ID at the beginning and end of a QSO and every ten minutes in between if you are having a long rag chew.

I think the reason most people append an id at the end of each transmission is that they have an ID macro that also toggles the T/R switch.
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KG6MZS
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Posts: 476




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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 10:45:13 AM »

No requirement for the beginning.  You can transmit for 10 minutes without IDing.  It's kinda rude, but not illegal.

Every ten minutes and at the end.

I just wish people would stop with the RSID for PSK-31.   Especially in a crowded waterfall.
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K4HXC2
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 01:50:20 PM »

I guess it's one of those letter vs spirit things.
The letter states beginning and end and every 10 minutes, correct as I remember it.
I notice on phone folks rarely follow that rule. A net I work mornings is probably the only people I've heard doing it properly these days.

As to the spirit, I think at the beginning or the end will fulfill that. For example:


letter:   aaaa de bbbb, Ok Joe, aaaa de bbbb, k
spirit:   aaaa de bbbb, ok Joe, k  Wink

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Dennis, WK1A
Formally K4DAZ
In honor of Dad, K4HXC(sk)
AA4PB
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Posts: 12638




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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 03:38:58 PM »

Well, here's the letter of the law:

97.119(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

I see no mention of the beginning - only the end of each communication. I expect "communication" means a series of back and forth transmissions and you are required to ID at the end of that "communication".

The rule also supplies the "spirit" (in terms of the reason) as "clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions". Since they use "transmissions" (plural) here that also makes me think they intend "communication" to mean a series of transmissions between two or more stations.

As I recall, this represents a change from an earlier rule that did require ID at the beginning and end of a communication.

So, two stations can communicate (they are likely to voluntarily ID at the beginning or they probably wouldn't know who they are talking to) back and forth for 10 minutes before they must ID plus they must ID when the sign off.

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STAYVERTICAL
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 04:07:56 PM »

Habit and convention is much stronger than efficiency in most cases.
Anyone is free to use whatever method satisfies the regulatory authorities rules.
However, if you try to use a short method internationally, I can almost predict confusion will result.
Most PSK31 stations have (as another post mentioned) their macros setup with stock endings.
Unless you are typing freestyle, and the other station recognises this and decides to do the same, you will get stock endings.

Also, kn is not really required as an ending in PSK31 as few stations will break in on a PSK31 qso, a simple K will suffice.
Remember, PSK31 is not an error free mode.
Many times in difficult conditions, stations look for clues as to whether the station is passing the baton to you by looking for callsigns.

If you are ragchewing with a strong stateside station, a freestyle mode would be fine, but beware of being too loose when communicating internationally.
You may find yourself repeating overs and going over the top of each other.
This would be more inefficient than a few redundant callsigns.

Just my dimes worth (inflation you know).

73 - Rob


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K4HXC2
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 04:32:53 PM »

If I'm primarily doing contacts, I do use a lot of macros that do indeed use the double ID method (front and back of each exchange) but, as pointed out, if a ragchew gets started then I'll go freestyle and just begin each transmission with X de Y then after typing, end with k or kn. Then at the end do the macro double ID. That sounds like it's in compliance with the letter and spirit.  The double ID for every exchange appears to not be required (and I've always thought it double double redundant redundant)   and should the band police mention it again I'll point out the current rule as posted by AA4NB.

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Dennis, WK1A
Formally K4DAZ
In honor of Dad, K4HXC(sk)
G0GQK
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Posts: 634




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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 12:23:58 PM »

I'm curious, are there still people at the FCC sitting around all day watching the misdemeanours of US amateurs every time they fire up their rigs, or is it local hams who regard themselves as "frequency cops" and report everything not to their required standard ?

As you are using lots of macro's for your callsign transmission, perhaps a re-design of the your macro content would solve your problem

Mel G0GQK
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KG6MZS
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Posts: 476




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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2012, 10:57:20 AM »

I double ID just so PSK Reporter can pick me up Smiley
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AG6WT
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Posts: 431




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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2012, 01:19:48 PM »

I double ID just so PSK Reporter can pick me up Smiley

Just to make sure there is no confusion, the "double id" in the context of this discussion is whether or not you have to announce your callsign at the beginning and end of each transmission:

<my callsign> blah blah blah blah <my callsign> k

To get spotted by pskreporter.info, it will look specifically for the pattern:

de <my callsign> <my callsign>

Ray KJ6AMF
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KG6MZS
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Posts: 476




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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2012, 01:32:08 PM »

Exactly.

Except for my DX macros.  Don't want to waste the DX's time with that noise.
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K4HXC2
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 01:43:40 PM »

Which took us in a giant circle, right back where we started..
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Dennis, WK1A
Formally K4DAZ
In honor of Dad, K4HXC(sk)
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