Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?  (Read 39521 times)
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 562


WWW

Ignore
« on: July 30, 2012, 01:15:16 PM »

What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 01:55:19 PM by NI0Z » Logged

WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 393




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2012, 05:07:25 PM »

There will always be people wanting the latest and greatest. That is human nature.
Yes, the features listed for the 6500 and the 6700 are very impressive. And if I had
the money to spend (without regret), I would want one too.
  As for the software, the current situation with Flex as far as SmartSDR is concerned,
is the fact that after a certain amount of time, you will have to pay for upgrades. Not
for updates (aka Bug Fixes) but for upgrades that might add new capabilities to your
existing hardware. Some take issue with that and with good reason. Others, feel that if
they can spend $4300 to $7500 for a radio that an added $200 to get the latest features
is worth it. Those used to the FREE updates and bug fixes from Flex for PowerSDR might
have a harder time with the idea. Personally, I like free. But, sometimes free isn't all it's
cracked up to be.
  And besides all that, I have yet to see a fully operational 6500 or 6700. I have seen the
hardware and a mockup display of the intended software interface (HAMCOM 2012).
But, without even seeing one working either live, or a prerecording like they demo for
the 1500,3000.and 5000, where you can actually interact with it, (tune around and test
filtering etc.) I'll pass before jumping into the deep end on a promise and a bit of interesting hardware, display.
  Flex has promised to post on their website the video that they showed to people
at their luncheon in Dayton. But, that has yet to materialize. It was supposed to contain
more in-depth information and demos than what they have shown at Dayton and other hamfests around the country.
  I'm actually amazed that they have had an "overwhelming response" with preorders
and with no actual, live demo of such expensive hardware. Even Kenwood did not try
to take pre-orders before the 990 comes out. Gutsy thing for Flex to do in a way!!!
Guess we'll see by Christmas!!
james
WD5GWY

   
Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1755




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2012, 05:51:56 PM »

I'm actually amazed that they have had an "overwhelming response" with preorders

I was told lots of things myself before I bought a Flexradio. I distinctly remember being told CW works great and the 160 mtr transmit spur was going to be Fixed with a software update in 4 weeks. All Lies....

Overwhelming response? Uh huh right....
LMAO

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1755




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2012, 05:55:13 PM »

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

You been hanging around this eham SDR forum for too long. You are starting to  think like K9IUQ and Gene.

Flexers will start saying You are mean.  Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 562


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 06:21:16 PM »

Folks, I am serious about my question.  Sure it sounds and looks cool, but what's the practicality of it all?  Ok, so if a person has the capacity to look at a Panadaptor for let's say 8 bands all at once while they are working contacts then seeing a band open up could be useful. 

If the CAT interface doesn't enable a direct connection to the rig and runs through SmartSDR then we may have PSDR all over again.  It would be nice if they make a program you could run under the OS running like a server process that would look like a virtual com port and radio for CAT control,so no focus is required, but I have not heard that yet from anyone.  That could make the rig interesting for contesting if the rules didn't prevent it from being used as far as multi and monitoring.

Ethernet, well, that will surely be better than FireWire but perhaps not as stable as USB or FireWire.

If you don't have a great antenna system and clean clean installed shack, you may never realize the improved receiver capabilities.

We will even loose the Tobias knobs fork when we switch over to SmartSDR unless they provide something.

So again, I am genuinely interested in hearing a real value other than its cool and you can see 8 bands all at one.  The Ethernet is not worth $7500 in my mind unless they Internet enable it for a club to share or something.
Logged

K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1755




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 06:55:12 PM »

Folks, I am serious about my question. 

Ok. I suggest you are asking the question in the wrong forum if you really are looking for answers. Try the Flex Reflectors.

There are few True Flex Believers left here on eham. Most have gotten disillusioned by the truths they have read here about Flexradio and have moved back to the Flex Reflectors where they can feel good by talking to those that will not question their Flex Beliefs.

I doubt you will find anyone here that is seriously thinking about buying a Flex 6700. I suspect you really gotta be a Well Heeled Hard Core Flex Fan Boy to consider the 6700. Someone that has more $$ than sense.  Average hams need not apply.

My question to myself: Why would I ever want to buy any Flexradio again at any price??

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
KA4POL
Member

Posts: 1978




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2012, 09:43:51 PM »

Why should I buy a Ferrari when am happy with my Porsche  Cool
Logged
N9RO
Member

Posts: 124


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 06:48:48 AM »

The future of ham radio is in the apps not the Sherwood numbers.  Routable IP radios are needed for these apps and radio's like the 6000 series are the building blocks for the future.  Think of it in terms of your mobile phone, it is like moving from the old MTS (Mobile Telephone Service) to today's LTE (Long Term Evolution) network.   The possibilities are endless.

Tim  N9RO
Logged

Real techies don't use knobs.
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 562


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 07:29:50 AM »

Tim,

I don't disagree with the App concept, in fact I have been advocating it for a while now.  The big box they are making though is an unessary step in the evolution in my mind.  They should be thinking smaller and more nimble.

The non ham and military segments with regards to SDR development are going compact.  For example, there is no reason why an iPhone sized device couldnt be created for hams.  Where we will need to go though, is outside the box that traditionally we think about.  For example, smaller connectors, onboard screen, no dials, downloaded functions and updates, docking stations, ect.

I think things will change when the paradigm shifts, and I believe it's already starting to, that we want to deal with less data from the bands rather than trying to wrap out arms arou call of it,  a model like this scans for incoming signals and creates meta data that the user interacts with verses full blown data.  If a user then chooses some level of interaction with thatmpiece of the band then processing can begin to transform it to the level it needs.  For example, it's easier to represent band location and signal strength and even signal shape than it is to also represent the actual data/voice carried within the signal.

A lighter flex radio that provided this would have been equally useful for the majority of hams.  I don't see many people we ring to record, store and scan gobs of bandwidth data offline.  That's more a limited practice than the norm.  The latter function requires a lot more hardware and power to perform than something that condenses and symbolizes signals until interaction is required.

Anyway, I think we will see some interesting developments over the next two years.

Part of the problem is if I offered a ham a device the size of an iPhone or an HT and said here is your FT-5000 replacement I don't think it would be received very well at first.  Think of all the immediate stereo types that would come to mind!

No knobs
Too small to be powerful
No way to hook it to a real antenna or amp

Ect ect..

This article will help illustrate where I am coming from.  Just fou d it after I finished this post.
http://groups.winnforum.org/p/bl/et/blogid=20&blogaid=20

« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 07:42:15 AM by NI0Z » Logged

N0YXB
Member

Posts: 310




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 09:13:00 AM »

I don't want my rig to be too small, I might lose it.   Wink
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 562


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 09:48:38 AM »

Lol  Grin Grin

It will come with a neck chain!

Also, I hear they are working on a modified propeller cap that has a 3 element Yagi for your tiny SDR with Bluetooth headset and goggles with simulated 100 inch screen.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 09:51:05 AM by NI0Z » Logged

QRPNEW
Member

Posts: 51




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 06:52:22 PM »

I can do all this on  HPSDR Hermes for say 1500 dollars with a 100 watt PA!

For the price asked for the new Flex I can have a HPSDR Hermes in every band!

While a remote shack seems attractive there is no protocol and standards yet for all the accessories. I cant find or buy a amp, wattmeter, rotator, bandswitch, keyer, power supply  and just about everything else that has a inbuilt
ethernet port. Having a transceiver alone sitting on its old Island without any means of controlling anything else achieves very little. I can buy a TS480HX if just wanted this feature.

This is more about the vision, and the vision will not be built by Flexradio alone. In the ham service there is a need for open source development that  can be used by every ham in the world. We really need to start
thinking about the inter-connectivity   that will make remote shacks possible. Buying 7000 dollar radios with remote operation thrown in as a marketing feature will not give you a instant remote shack. Remoting
a shack is a lot of work  and  time that you have to do yourself with workarounds because the solutions do not exist yet.

The Flexradio just looks to  me to  be a grossly overpriced piece of hardware whose specifications and features dont offer state of the art performance that matches its huge price. A 7000 dollar radio with 13.8 volt PA,
how horrible can get?




What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.
Logged
ZENKI
Member

Posts: 934




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 07:13:38 PM »

The new  Flexradio will have special noise blanker in it. It can cancel all the spurs  of Flex5000 users.
It will also have miracle technology that will allow you to suppress other stations IMD, splatter and keyclicks  which will allow you to use all those great receiver numbers.

In the meant time on transmit, you will use your 13.8 volt CB PA built into your Flexradio wonder box that will  destroy everyone other hams noise floor. Thats the marvels of technology progression. 2 steps forward and 5 backwards!

For   final asking price you would have thought that Flex radio could have used  a high voltage FET PA with adaptive pre-distortion like the ADAT transceiver. With all that DSP horsepower  under the hood, adaptive per-distortion could
have easily been added. There is however little point adding pre-distortion to the PA when you using 13.8 volt CB PA devices. This is as cheap and nasty as you can get, its really an insult for the 7000 dollar price. The Yaesu FT5000
delivers superb IMD performance and uses proper RF PA devices. As usual the suckers  drinking the koolaid will say its the latest and the best.

The Hermes transceiver  will suffer from the same malaise, excellent IMD performance that will be ruined by most users by using sub standard CB PA designs. All the after market PA offerings 
are just rubbish designs with very poor IMD performance.  I am sure the hams who take the issue of transmitter IMD seriously will build themselves proper PA designs.



I can do all this on  HPSDR Hermes for say 1500 dollars with a 100 watt PA!

For the price asked for the new Flex I can have a HPSDR Hermes in every band!

While a remote shack seems attractive there is no protocol and standards yet for all the accessories. I cant find or buy a amp, wattmeter, rotator, bandswitch, keyer, power supply  and just about everything else that has a inbuilt
ethernet port. Having a transceiver alone sitting on its old Island without any means of controlling anything else achieves very little. I can buy a TS480HX if just wanted this feature.

This is more about the vision, and the vision will not be built by Flexradio alone. In the ham service there is a need for open source development that  can be used by every ham in the world. We really need to start
thinking about the inter-connectivity   that will make remote shacks possible. Buying 7000 dollar radios with remote operation thrown in as a marketing feature will not give you a instant remote shack. Remoting
a shack is a lot of work  and  time that you have to do yourself with workarounds because the solutions do not exist yet.

The Flexradio just looks to  me to  be a grossly overpriced piece of hardware whose specifications and features dont offer state of the art performance that matches its huge price. A 7000 dollar radio with 13.8 volt PA,
how horrible can get?




What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.
Logged
KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 10:22:53 AM »


For   final asking price you would have thought that Flex radio could have used  a high voltage FET PA with adaptive pre-distortion like the ADAT transceiver. With all that DSP horsepower  under the hood, adaptive per-distortion could
have easily been added. There is however little point adding pre-distortion to the PA when you using 13.8 volt CB PA devices. This is as cheap and nasty as you can get, its really an insult for the 7000 dollar price. The Yaesu FT5000
delivers superb IMD performance and uses proper RF PA devices. As usual the suckers  drinking the koolaid will say its the latest and the best.

The Hermes transceiver  will suffer from the same malaise, excellent IMD performance that will be ruined by most users by using sub standard CB PA designs. All the after market PA offerings  
are just rubbish designs with very poor IMD performance.  I am sure the hams who take the issue of transmitter IMD seriously will build themselves proper PA designs.


Why don't you get off your arm chair and design a good low IMD PA and contribute the design to the Ham community instead of whining about 13.8 V CB type amps all the time?

Gene
Logged
NO9E
Member

Posts: 403




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 12:27:53 PM »

There is a movement in this direction even in ham radio. First step called KX3.... A little bigger than iPhone
but more power that could have been delivered in Iphone size.
Ignacy, NO9E

...

The non ham and military segments with regards to SDR development are going compact.  For example, there is no reason why an iPhone sized device couldnt be created for hams.  
...

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!