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Author Topic: Vanity Question  (Read 4953 times)
KB1WSY
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Posts: 715




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« on: August 01, 2012, 09:24:47 AM »

I wasn't at all interested in a vanity call until I spotted a very appropriate possibility -- it has both personal meaning and a nice Morse ring to it. Upon further research, I discovered that it belongs to someone who went SK last November (2011) and the expiration date for the license was December (also 2011). It is however still listed as "active" in ULS. How long before it becomes available? I assume it would be the two-year grace period for renewal? I am not at all in a hurry and I feel it would be very bad form to contact the heirs of the SK about this.

As far as I can tell, when the call does become available, it gets put into a pool of "available vanities"? At which point you just have to hope for the best, it's basically a lottery? (I tried to do some research about this but I just got more and more confused.) Is there some way that you can express your interest, in advance of the pending availability of your desired call?

Not totally sure I really want to go for a vanity, but might as well get the info....

Tnx 73 de Martin, KB1WSY
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K0YHV
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 09:52:09 AM »

It becomes available 2 years after the date of death for the individual, or 2 years after the expiration date, whichever is first.

John AF5CC
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WW3QB
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Posts: 695




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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 06:07:47 PM »

It becomes available 2 years after the date of death for the individual, or 2 years after the expiration date, whichever is first.

John AF5CC

Only if the FCC is notified about the death.
About call sign harvesting: http://www.ae7q.com/text/SilentKey.php
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W5DQ
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 08:57:22 AM »

I am not at all in a hurry and I feel it would be very bad form to contact the heirs of the SK about this.


Bad form depends on your approach. If you go in demanding, bad form indeed. But if you go asking about the possibility of gaining the call and if there are any relatives who may be planning on applying for it, I think you'd have a better than even chance of getting some info. Best is to know whether to waste your time if a son or daughter is working on their ticket and plans to apply for it very soon.

Besides if the gentleman went SK in Nov 11 and the license expired Dec 11, submitting a obit really would not buy you any time savings since the 2year and day clock started the day of the expiration. With the new rules, regardless of who enters the obit/death cert, everyone has to wait 30 days but if it went unnoticed after someone DID submit a obit/notice, then you might miss the window.

I say go for it if you really want it, especially if its a 1x2 as those are really scarce nowadays.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
KB1WSY
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Posts: 715




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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 09:22:00 AM »

I am not at all in a hurry and I feel it would be very bad form to contact the heirs of the SK about this.

Bad form depends on your approach. ... (snip) ... I say go for it if you really want it, especially if its a 1x2 as those are really scarce nowadays.

It's not a 1x2 but a "W1" 1x3 that has personal resonance for me and a nice Morse cadence. Thank you for your advice, I am now feeling slightly less queasy about the SK part of it. I certainly wouldn't want to be pushy if, for instance, a member of the family is working on their ticket. I'll sleep on it, before contacting the family -- it's now been 9 months since he went SK and I would hope that this is a respectful interval.

About the only issue I can think of with this call is that because it is not immediately identifiable on the air as a vanity, but has considerable age given its prefix, people may think I am a lot older than I actually am! But, having just passed my 55th birthday, I can't say I care -- and it might even be an advantage!!

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
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W5ESE
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 10:49:08 AM »

With the growth of the vanity call sign system, people on the air no longer assume
someone on the air is an OT just because of their callsign, unless they hold an
older 2x3 WA# or WB# type call.

My call was first issued in the early 30's, but I'm 51.
73
Scott W5ESE
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W5DQ
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 11:15:24 AM »

I am not at all in a hurry and I feel it would be very bad form to contact the heirs of the SK about this.

Bad form depends on your approach. ... (snip) ... I say go for it if you really want it, especially if its a 1x2 as those are really scarce nowadays.

It's not a 1x2 but a "W1" 1x3 that has personal resonance for me and a nice Morse cadence. Thank you for your advice, I am now feeling slightly less queasy about the SK part of it. I certainly wouldn't want to be pushy if, for instance, a member of the family is working on their ticket. I'll sleep on it, before contacting the family -- it's now been 9 months since he went SK and I would hope that this is a respectful interval.

About the only issue I can think of with this call is that because it is not immediately identifiable on the air as a vanity, but has considerable age given its prefix, people may think I am a lot older than I actually am! But, having just passed my 55th birthday, I can't say I care -- and it might even be an advantage!!

73 de Martin, KB1WSY


Like is said "You're only as old as you feel". Occasionally when I get up in the morning, I feel like I'm around 107 or so. But then a good shower, breakfast and a pot of coffee and I slide back to a comfortable 88 Smiley I'm really only 54.

When (and if) you decide to contact the family, explain to them why you are considering the callsign and if they would care to share any reminiscing about the SK's time as a ham with that callsign. If the SK was an OT, perhaps he had the call for quite a while and the family may be open to the idea of their ham's callsign going forward, especially if they know to whom it is going.

When I got my dad's call, I started looking up the history of the callsign and found alot of interesting information. I especially enjoyed meeting the daughter of a previous holder of W5DQ from the early 20's. You can read about my results at eHAM and QRZ.COM if you are so inclined to take a look. Just enter my callsign in the call lookup function.

73 and good luck in your decision,

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
W3HF
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 11:28:27 AM »

I certainly wouldn't want to be pushy if, for instance, a member of the family is working on their ticket. I'll sleep on it, before contacting the family -- it's now been 9 months since he went SK and I would hope that this is a respectful interval.

I don't see why you even need to contact the family. You can't do anything to apply for the call until after their potential claim (under the close relative provision) expires. So as long as you can get a copy of an obituary (or other acceptable proof of death), you can handle it all yourself without involving them.

Here's a quick scenario. There are probably others, but this one came to me.

1. Wait until October 2013. Since you can't apply until after the two-year anniversary of his death, there's no advantage to getting the call cancelled early. By waiting until October next year to cancel it, you are giving the family lots of time to deal with it themselves first without outside interference.

2. If nothing has happened yet, submit a request for cancellation about six or eight weeks before the two-year anniversary of his death. This allows a few weeks' time for the FCC to process the request and have it done so that the extra 30 days' notice occurs by the anniversary of his death. This still gives the family the full two years to apply, but makes the call available for anyone to request as of the anniversary date. (They are still the only ones who can apply prior to the anniversary.)

3. Apply on the day after the anniversary day (but not earlier than 30 days after cancellation, if that occurred later than expected). This will ensure you are in the competition ("lottery") for the call and doesn't infringe on the family's privileges, which end on the anniversary date. And if no one else applies, you will have it on the earliest day possible.


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W5DQ
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 02:18:10 PM »

I thought if the obit/notice was submitted, then the applications could start 30 days after the license was cancelled, not having to wait the entire 2 years + 1 day. This kept SK harvesting more on a competitive even keel by making the call be listed as coming up on a certain day and not a 'cancel one day, apply the next' and hope for the best as before.

Also if someone, applied for the call in the allowable period before a relative, the relative would lose out.

Am I all wet here?

I haven't applied for anythnig after the rule changes went into effect so I haven't put any of the changes to practice.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
W3HF
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 08:51:49 AM »

Gene -

The new 30-day rule is an addition to the two-year-plus-one-day (2y+1) rule, not a replacement. And the new rules take into consideration the date of death, date of cancellation, and expiration date. But they don't supercede the "close relative" clause, so family members still get first shot for the two years. So the cases are:

- If a call is SK-cancelled less than 30 days prior to expiration+2y+1, the call becomes available at expiration+2y+1. (This is when it would naturally come available. Everyone already knows that, so the extra 30 days after cancellation aren't needed. This renders SK-cancellation useless within the 30-day period prior to exp+2y+1, unless a family member wants to apply within 2y+1--that requires the call to have been already cancelled.)

- If a call is SK-cancelled more than 30 days prior to expiration+2y+1, and more than two years after death, the call becomes available at cancellation+30. (This is the "give everyone time to see it's been cancelled" clause.) This has no effect on the family members, since it's already outside of the two-year wait after death.

- If a call is SK-cancelled more than 30 days prior to expiration+2y+1 but less than two years after death, the call becomes generally available at either death+2y+1 or cancellation+30, whichever occurs later. (This guarantees at least 30 days to "give everyone time to see it's been cancelled.") So close relatives still have "first shot" at it until that date.
  
I think those are all the cases.

Steve
W3HF
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 08:53:55 AM by W3HF » Logged
K1CJS
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Posts: 5995




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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 04:31:17 AM »

....When (and if) you decide to contact the family, explain to them why you are considering the callsign and if they would care to share any reminiscing about the SK's time as a ham with that callsign. If the SK was an OT, perhaps he had the call for quite a while and the family may be open to the idea of their ham's callsign going forward, especially if they know to whom it is going....

If you go about it in the right way, you may even be able to have the family submit a letter stating that you're a distant relative and that they want you to get the call.  I know of one ham who did this (he did know one of the relatives of the deceased) and got the callsign.  After all, if you go far enough back, we're ALL related  Grin so it isn't a blatant falsehood at all!
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W3HF
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 05:02:11 AM »

If you go about it in the right way, you may even be able to have the family submit a letter stating that you're a distant relative and that they want you to get the call.  I know of one ham who did this (he did know one of the relatives of the deceased) and got the callsign.  After all, if you go far enough back, we're ALL related  Grin so it isn't a blatant falsehood at all!

I'd like to believe you were joking when you said this, but I fear you weren't.

1. Current vanity rules define the family relationships that are allowed. 97.19(c)(3)(ii) lists them all, and typical "distant" ones are not included. For example, aunt/uncle and niece/nephew are, but cousin isn't. So unless they are willing to adopt you or marry you, you're not likely to qualify.

2. I would personally be very cautious about putting any type of falsehood on an FCC application, considering the possible consequences to my license. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone else to either.

3. I do know of cases where clubs have received permission to request SK calls in memoriam even though there wasn't a relationship, but the club case is a different situation than an individual call, both in terms of type of license and in type of vanity application.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 04:33:30 AM »

Yes, you're right--I wasn't joking.  In the case I heard of, the person who got the callsign was a close friend of the deceased.  How the machinations were done I don't know.  All I do know is that the callsign was reassigned, and I'm pretty sure it was shortly after the original holder passed on, not after the two year wait period.   
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W7HBP
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Posts: 164




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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 11:12:27 PM »

It's not a 1x2 but a "W1" 1x3 that has personal resonance for me and a nice Morse cadence.

I'm an extra and picked up a 1X3 vanity also. It was my late grandfathers. I know I could of gotten a 1X2 or a 2X1, and the one i have, the code part isnt quite as easy, but it has a sentimental meaning and value and will run it till I go SK.
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 607




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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 08:06:43 PM »

Quote
I would personally be very cautious about putting any type of falsehood on an FCC application, considering the possible consequences to my license.

Consequences to your license is the EASY part.  Willful false statements on ANY federal government document is a serious offense (pretty sure its a felony) and is punishable by some pretty severe prison time.  I don't think they'll let you bring your ham radio with you to prison.
Beside that, this whole discussion makes me rather ill; right up there with hauling the SK's gear home a few hours after the funeral.  For cryin' out loud people, show some freakin' class!
Tom
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