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Author Topic: NB and NR Performance Comparisons?  (Read 22099 times)
K9IUQ
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Posts: 2077




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« on: August 05, 2012, 04:58:48 AM »

As one who gets occasional noise from various sources I have often wondered if anyone has done serious comparison of NB and NR performance among the various current receiver offerings? I have had many different radios in the last 10 years and have noted that the NB/NR performance varies considerably. Here are my views of radios I have owned. Would be interested in seeing other views of NB/NR performance.

Kenwood TS-590s - barely adequate, will not work with severe powerline noise. Much distortion if NB/NR is pushed too far.

Kenwood 2000 - Not adequate.

Icom Pro II, Pro III - Better than most, perhaps as good as I have heard.

Icom 7000 - I own this radio presently along with a TS-590s. The Icom 7000 has superior NB/NR performance compared to the Kenwood. Even severe powerline noise will disappear with the 7000, while the TS-590s chokes.

Yaesu FT-897D - Performs below other radios I have owned.

Flexradio 5000a - This radio's NB/NR is one of the best ones I have used. Maybe even better than the Icoms I have owned.

I owned the Timewave DSP 599 for a while. I thought it was pretty worthless. Anyone else with experience with outboard NB/NR devices like  the ClearSpeech or Gap's Hear it?

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 05:10:04 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
SWMAN
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Posts: 599




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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 06:12:11 AM »

 I have a Kenwood TS-570 and the NB is actually useless, I dont think that the switch is even hooked up or at least that is what it seems. No difference at all with any type of noise. The NR is also useless as it makes all sounds sound like underwater bubbling or something like that. I do not ever use any of the useless settings.
                         73, Jim  W5JJG
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KE2TR
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Posts: 191




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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 08:55:52 PM »

I dont agree, on the 590 when you use NB2 at about half way and at times NR1 again at about half way on the control it can make the difference between copy and no copy. NB1 is in the anolog IF stage so if there is a strong station near you might get a lttel bit of crackle but NB2 is DSP based and doesnt suffer from that affect, again about mid way on the settings and you should get good results, I had an Icom 746 Pro before which its NB and NR worked well but the 590 is far better but I bet the newer Icom 7410 just might be a step forward only caus its the latest DSP engine used like the ones in the 7600 and 7700 but the chip set is not the whole story its really up to the party that designs and does final programing. I think that many dont RTFM and any of these blankers used too agresivly will distort.
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N0SYA
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 09:15:11 PM »

I have yet to hear dsp nr that did more than reduce the apparent recovered audio (the audio highs usualy) by x amount, meaning that nr is still not quite there yet to me. Dsp filtration on the other hand is wonderfull. No group delay, perfect (or close to it) symmetry from slope to slope, very good stop band attenuation. In my mind dsp modulation and demodulation as well as filtration is where dsp is best used.
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If you have a clumsy child, you make them wear a helmet. If you have death prone children, you keep a few clones of them in your lab.
K9IUQ
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 03:03:33 AM »

I dont agree, on the 590 when you use NB2 at about half way and at times NR1 again at about half way on the control it can make the difference between copy and no copy.

 I think that many dont RTFM and any of these blankers used too agresivly will distort.

Since I own both the Icom 7000 and the Kenwood 590s I can say truthfully say that side by comparisons show the Icom's NB to have much better performance. I have tested them both many many times on different types of noise. Especially on Powerline noise. Really it is like night and day, The Icom just works great, the Kenwood chokes. Previously I owned the Pro II and the Pro III. Both seemed similar to the Icom 7000 as far as the NB performance.

I can also assure everyone I have read the manuals and as an experienced (52 years) ham know how to adjust the NB's.  Wink

Disagreeing with me is fine BUT- have you done side by side NB tests of Icom and Kenwood Noise Blanker's like I have done?

Stan K9IUQ
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KQ6Q
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 09:58:47 PM »

The NR on my IC-746Pro does an excellent job - I'm amazed at the noise level I hear when I turn it off. It stays on almost all the time here!
KQ6Q
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W8JX
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Posts: 6643




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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 09:48:06 PM »

I have a Kenwood TS-570 and the NB is actually useless, I dont think that the switch is even hooked up or at least that is what it seems. No difference at all with any type of noise. The NR is also useless as it makes all sounds sound like underwater bubbling or something like that. I do not ever use any of the useless settings.
                         73, Jim  W5JJG

The NB on a 570 will only work with a certain type of pules noise like ignition. As far as NR on rig it is not the best but if you use the right combo of IF shift and DSP HiBoost on receive you cab cut noise some and not get too muddy. I the 480 and it has excellent noise control. It has a NB, a DNL, a NR1 and NR2. All are adjustable too. On a side note the TS140 has a pretty decent NB too. I use one mobile and as a backup.
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KH6DC
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2012, 12:20:04 AM »

I use NB & NR on my Elecraft K3 and it wipes out powerline noise, fluorescent lighting ballast hum and plasma TV noise.  This blows my previous rigs NB/NR: Icom 756 Pro, Pro II, 7600 and my 706 MKIIG.

73, Delwyn KH6DC
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
K4TOJ
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 07:15:26 AM »

My first rig was a TS-930SAT when I got licensed a couple years ago.  It had NB1 and NB2 that either I didn't really understand or it didn't work very well.  Usually, I could get what I wanted by using the slope and/or notch controls.  Of course, this technology is pretty old, so there would have to be improvements in 30 years right?

Other than the 930, I haven't had a lot of experience with other makes or models.  But, having two 590s in the past 5/6 months (1st one killed by contact lightening surge), I've been REALLY impressed with the various "noise" options. If you haven't read the in depth manual Kenwood offered, I would.  They go in to great detail on why they chose the design they did and explain the filters pretty well.  You can get to it through the following link.  It's also available in the yahoo group downloads:

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/UserFiles/File/UnitedStates/Communications/AMA/Manuals/TS-590_In-Depth-Manual.pdf

73!
Tom - K4TOJ
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AE4RV
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 11:28:28 AM »

I have a 7410, the NR is very noticeably better than my 746pro (read: it's quite good), can't comment on the NB, don't have that kind of noise here usually.

I really like the 7410 a lot but CW ops who run QSK should stay away. Pitiful fast break-in performance on CW is my only complaint.
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K6UJ
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Posts: 339




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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 11:24:15 PM »

I have tried the Ts-590 and my K3  side by side on our local power line noise
The 590 does quite well but the K3 is the most effective  I will say that these two radios do
A much better job than radios I have owned in the past

Bob,
K6UJ
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NO2A
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2012, 01:28:31 PM »

Recently I had the chance to try the nb in my `857D cause of what appeared to be man made qrm from something local. It caused a sudden s5 or more noise level. I found it to be most effective on the bands above 30m,it zapped the noise completely. On 30m and below it caused distortion and some ghost signals to appear.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2012, 03:11:11 PM »

My IC756PRO noise blanker performance on power line noise depends on the wx. Some days it will completely remove it. Other days it will hardly touch it. I expect it has to do with the width of the noise pulses being generated by the power line arcing. High humidity seems to be the worst days.

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W8JI
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2012, 04:43:26 PM »

If we study how noise blankers work, and what noise can look like, it becomes obvious why different cases will have vastly different results.

:-)
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W4OP
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 08:25:14 PM »

Recently I had the chance to try the nb in my `857D cause of what appeared to be man made qrm from something local. It caused a sudden s5 or more noise level. I found it to be most effective on the bands above 30m,it zapped the noise completely. On 30m and below it caused distortion and some ghost signals to appear.
The NB doesn't "know" what band you are on. Classically, the NB is in the first IF before any narrow filtering. So the NB is seeing  more of the band than you are listening to. This is necessary to allow for minimum lag in the blanking. If signals into the NB are too high, it will produce distortion. Were you using the preamp on the bands below 30M? Sometimes- particularly  evenings, it may be necessary to switch in some attenuation on the low bands.

Dale W4OP
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 08:29:03 PM by W4OP » Logged
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