Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: TS-2000 CW in SSB mode  (Read 3186 times)
K8POS
Member

Posts: 332


WWW

Ignore
« on: August 09, 2012, 07:01:59 AM »

I am trying to learn CW.  I get on a 2 meter SSB net where everyone uses CW now and then but in SSB mode. For the life of me I can not figure out how to get my TS-2000 to key up in SSB.  It plays the tones but does not transmit.  If I manually key the mic, the side tones do not play when the key is hit.  Pages 42-45 of the manual describe all of the CW settings that are available.  I am thinking I need to make a tone generator and hook it up to the mic input if I want to use CW in SSB mode.

Any suggestions?

Bob
K8POS
Logged
KA4POL
Member

Posts: 1905




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 07:28:04 AM »

See http://www.qsl.net/wm2u/cw.html
Logged
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2756




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 09:19:58 AM »

I am trying to learn CW.  I get on a 2 meter SSB net where everyone uses CW now and then but in SSB mode. For the life of me I can not figure out how to get my TS-2000 to key up in SSB.  It plays the tones but does not transmit.  If I manually key the mic, the side tones do not play when the key is hit.  Pages 42-45 of the manual describe all of the CW settings that are available.  I am thinking I need to make a tone generator and hook it up to the mic input if I want to use CW in SSB mode.

Any suggestions?

Bob
K8POS

That's the way most hams send and receive Morse code transmissions on 2M unless they have a rig that supports CW mode on that band.  It's not really "CW"; it's SSB, but the information in the message is in the form of Morse code.  You should be able to find any number of oscillator designs.  Google "Code Practice Oscillator" for a start.  Then devise a way (footswitch?) to key the mike and put the audio source close to the mike and send.
Logged

73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13013




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 09:48:33 AM »

Can't you just switch from SSB to CW mode to send?  Any modern rig should be able to send
CW while monitoring the SSB chatter on the same frequency.  (My first solid state SSB rig
could do that over 30 years ago.)  That's the way they should work, though I don't
know about the TS-2000.

Reception in CW mode is no different than for SSB.  Some rigs have the option for narrow
filters, or may choose them by default if they are installed, but any of my rigs are also able
to listen through the standard SSB filter.  That means there is no difference in reception when
switching modes.  (If the audio is garbled, you may need to set the CW-R mode option that
changes the sideband used for CW.  Or adjust the RIT.  Or both.)

So for any of my rigs, if I want to add CW to an SSB conversation, I just turn the mode
switch to CW and I can still hear the conversation just as though I was listening in SSB
mode.  Then I can hit the key and send as desired, and switch back to SSB to use voice.


If that doesn't work for some reason, then you can use an external audio oscillator (or
hold the mic up to a buzzer) and do it that way.
Logged
W5DQ
Member

Posts: 1209


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 10:34:59 AM »

I am trying to learn CW.  I get on a 2 meter SSB net where everyone uses CW now and then but in SSB mode. For the life of me I can not figure out how to get my TS-2000 to key up in SSB.  It plays the tones but does not transmit.  If I manually key the mic, the side tones do not play when the key is hit.  Pages 42-45 of the manual describe all of the CW settings that are available.  I am thinking I need to make a tone generator and hook it up to the mic input if I want to use CW in SSB mode.

Any suggestions?

Bob
K8POS

I'm not sure what your trying to do as it makes no sense from an operating aspect as far as I am familiar with, unless of course your trying to work cross-mode.

For the record, I use my TS2000/X in CW all the time by running a line from my computer interface with a CW keying circuit to the CW key socket on the back of the radio to end CW via the computer and from my external keyer (the 2 circuit are in parallel and the same as far as the TS2K is concerned). If you want to RX in SSB and TX in CW (why I don't know if you're operating CW, do both in CW) try using SPLIT. Set the frequencies the same (A=B) and just change the modes, USB on RX, CW on TX and your all set.

Also if you set the menu option (I don't recall the number off hand) that automatically switches to CW mode when you are in SSB and key the CW key port, the rig will change modes automatically to CW. It won't however change back automatically. You'll have to press the USB menu button for that.

Gene W5DQ
Logged

Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
WB2EOD
Member

Posts: 214




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 03:53:09 PM »

I run a TS-2000 and I think this will work.

Set the TS-2000 to CW Mode and tune in the signal.
While the other station is transmitting, press the function key then the RIT key (it has the label "CW TUNE" in red).
This should put you on frequency with everyone else and maintain the desired CW tone in receive

Hope this helps 
73
WB2EOD
Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2685


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2012, 04:43:37 AM »

CW - Turning on un-modulated carrier ON and OFF in specific patterns to convey information

MCW - Modulating a carrier with audio tones that are turned ON and OFF in specific patterns to convey information
If you transmit MCW using FM or AM, the carrier is always ON, while doing the same using SSB actually turns the carrier ON and OFF when the tones are present or not on the audio input

What you are wanting to do is MCW.  This will require you to feed audio tones from an oscillator, controlled by the ON/OFF switching action of a key (in essence a code practice oscillator) OR generated by a suitable computer program, into the microphone jack or the ACC jack.  You will also need a way to activate the PTT while sending.
Logged
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13013




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2012, 08:17:43 AM »

Quote from: KG4RUL

What you are wanting to do is MCW...




Not necessarily.  If the group is talking on SSB, they should have no problems copying
a CW signal.  It shouldn't even require the use of RIT to get there.

At least on any HF rig I've ever used, if the rig is tuned to receive SSB with a carrier
frequency of, say, 144.3 MHz, and it is switched to CW, then it will still receive SSB
on that same carrier frequency (presuming that CW is set to use the proper sideband.)
Hitting the key will generate a CW signal on 144.3007 (assuming USB), which all
the SSB stations will hear as a 700Hz tone.  The displayed frequency may shift to
show the transmit frequency in CW rather than the carrier frequency for SSB, but
you should still be able to hear the SSB stations on the net, and they can hear
your CW signal.  I've done this before when the band fades and I need to finish
a SSB QSO on CW:  I just flip the mode switch and hit the key.  (It isn't as easy
with some of the older transceivers - the TS-430 was a pain to use this way on
75m because it only worked CW in USB, but most modern rigs give the option
of CW or CW-R so you can receive either sideband.)

This doesn't work for AM or FM, of course.  And it might be that using an external
tone oscillator with the rig in SSB mode might be simpler to implement in some cases
(for example, if the key jack is difficult to reach, or you want more control over
the pitch and waveform from the oscillator.)
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12667




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2012, 08:37:08 AM »

Provided you have a clean setup with no hum, buzz, or other noise in the audio system, keying an audio tone into a SSB transmitter generates a CW signal at the output. It is not MCW and it is not SSB. You can legally operate it in the CW portion of the band.

Now if you do it with an AM or FM transmitter then you are generating an MCW signal because you are transmitting a carrier modulated by the CW tone.
Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2685


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2012, 12:57:16 PM »

Provided you have a clean setup with no hum, buzz, or other noise in the audio system, keying an audio tone into a SSB transmitter generates a CW signal at the output. It is not MCW and it is not SSB. You can legally operate it in the CW portion of the band.

Now if you do it with an AM or FM transmitter then you are generating an MCW signal because you are transmitting a carrier modulated by the CW tone.


I have to take exception with your statement.  Keying an audio tone into an SSB transmitter is in fact MCW.  Consider that a CW signal is considered to be approximately 150Hz in bandwidth an A1A signal.  If, for example, you key your SSB transmitter with 700Hz audio tones, your signal bandwidth is approximately 700Hz and most closely resembles a J1D signal.  Definitely not CW.

MCW is not allowed in the United States on amateur radio frequencies lower than 50.1 MHz, between 144.0 and 144.1 MHz, or between 219 and 220 MHz, is a very inefficient use of radio spectrum.
Logged
G3RZP
Member

Posts: 4362




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2012, 01:49:48 PM »

Sorry 'RUL,

I disagree. Provided the carrier and sideband noise and harmonics are low enough to meet the bandwidth requirements of ITU-R Rec. SM 328, a single keyed tone is CW - A1A, and quite probably about 200 Hz wide at 30 wpm.

What it isn't is being on the same frequency as the suppressed carrier of the J3E signal.

In practice, the approach isn't at all good, depite being used by well known manufacturers, needing an AF tone high enough that it's second harmonic gets killed by the SSB filter. Without IRT on a transceiver, it gets really crap to copy.

Sad to say few, SSB transceivers really make provision for decent CW, mainly because the designers are not amateurs who operate on that mode.
Logged
K8POS
Member

Posts: 332


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2012, 07:42:44 PM »

Gee...
How quickly everyone gets away from the question.
I know how to put the radio into CW mode and send code. 

The TS-2000 has a built in side tone generator.  Something in the wiring or programming of the radio prevents it from being used in any mode but CW.
I know I could hook a Signal generator up the mic input, or place the mic near the speaker.
I want to use the built in generator in ALL MODES (SSB, AM, FM) not just CW.
I have already send an email to Kenwood to help find the signal that turns the generator on and off.
Have found the IC on the schematic that the keyer goes into, but I do not know how to decipher Kenwood's signal names.
By the way, the built in generator makes for great practice with out transmitting.
Remember we are all doing this on voice bands to help learn code.

Bob
Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2685


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 08:43:57 PM »

Sorry 'RUL,

I disagree. Provided the carrier and sideband noise and harmonics are low enough to meet the bandwidth requirements of ITU-R Rec. SM 328, a single keyed tone is CW - A1A, and quite probably about 200 Hz wide at 30 wpm.

What it isn't is being on the same frequency as the suppressed carrier of the J3E signal.

In practice, the approach isn't at all good, depite being used by well known manufacturers, needing an AF tone high enough that it's second harmonic gets killed by the SSB filter. Without IRT on a transceiver, it gets really crap to copy.

Sad to say few, SSB transceivers really make provision for decent CW, mainly because the designers are not amateurs who operate on that mode.

Yep, I got mind-locked on speech in SSB vs a single tone.  So, that being the case, MCW can be used any where CW can be used which is basically anywhere.
Logged
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13013




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 04:18:03 PM »

Quote from: K8POS

I know how to put the radio into CW mode and send code.  



And this doesn't do what you want?  From the other end it sounds exactly the same:
they hear a tone when you send CW, and your voice on SSB.  The only thing you need
to do is to switch the mode switch to CW when you want to send CW - you can still copy
their SSB signals just fine.  The only difference is that the CW signal will be a pure sine
wave tone, while using the internal audio oscillator it might not be.

The Index Labs QRP+ is the only rig I've encountered that didn't need a mode switch:
it sends SSB if you squeeze the PTT and CW if you close the key.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!