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Author Topic: Remember This?  (Read 4497 times)
HFCRUSR
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Posts: 139




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« on: August 13, 2012, 06:51:25 PM »

I found this way back in the early 80s at a church sale and it's been in the closet all these years. I dug it out, along with the old trusty BSR turntable that still works, and now I have a CW lesson setup in my livingroom Cool I think I'll give it a whirl
The Archer 10-lesson morse code LP-circa 1969
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx34/ridgerocker2001/IMG_1960.jpg

is this a good learning method still?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 07:49:50 PM by RXRXRX » Logged
K7MH
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Posts: 339




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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 07:20:29 PM »

In a word, no.
In several words, it actually never was!

I was there! I used the Ameco record which is probably the same. I got through it ok but didn't know any better at the time.
Back then we had to be able to write stuff down and focused far too much on that. We had to have 1 perfect continuous minute of hard copy SOMEWHERE inside of 5 minutes that was sent. Now you don't so I wouldn't want to learn it that way. I would want to learn it as just "head copy" and not written.
There are much better methods out there these days.

I still have what I copied on paper for my novice test...pretty scary looking!!  Grin
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K8AXW
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 09:08:08 PM »

I have never seen, let alone used the Archer record for learning the code.  So I have to defer to MH's knowledge here.

However, with that being said, it seems to me that you should be able to learn something from it.  Give it a try.  You have nothing to lose and it might be fun.

As for the "writing down" vs. the "head copy" I can tell you that head copy for 99% of the CW operators is considered a very advanced method of copying code.  Write it down.  That way you can check your work with the book.  What's more if you miss a character or two you can pick up where copy returns  and continue.  As MH said, it was necessary to copy a solid minute out of a 5 minute run.  There isn't anything wrong with this method.

As for more advanced methods.... perhaps.  But you have this and so you might just as well use it, at least for the time being.  Good luck!
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K7MH
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Posts: 339




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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 11:37:49 PM »

Look up the Koch method on the web.
Far better way of going about it.
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 03:41:25 AM »

Method is excellent usable. No worry.

As a matter of fact people think when they learn Morse code, they can copy everything with the same proficiency.

That is not true. When you copy high speed plain text, it turns out your speed halves when you go over to code groups, or a mill (typewriterkeyboard) Even so with changing to call sign copy or head copy.

So look what you want. The general ham is interested in conversation average speed, handling a piece of paper and a pencil, or just copy by head.  When it is a contester, because the upper half of his head is pretty empty, and he is looking for some way to waste his leasure time and to exercise cheating, you can exercise call signs. That are not really random groups, because the prefix is an instance of a wellknown limited set.

A mill and random characters has much less sense than your course , because with a mill you exercise just transforming a sound pattern to a finger press, and you really don't know what you are doing and what you are typing. You end up with solid copy while talking to other people, without knowing what was sent, and always in need for a mill at hand.

So learn writing down, that is what you are going to do in practice on the ham bands or at proficiency runs at hamfests.
When you start  using Morse on the bands, you are sweating and writing, and when you got the key, you can read from your scribbling back what was really sent, then you comprehend the received message, not earlier.

So, the method is OK, better then Koch with wide spaced random characters, ask a plain text QRQ er to copy random Koch 2x/x on a mill, and he will have a hard time. His comfort speed more then halves. The sound of the code is murdered by Koch. Guys that finished Koch ask QRS (slow code) on the bands , and still can't copy because they are used to wide spaced  higher speed.

Because learning the code takes time, and you are commuting every day to your job, you can after finishing the course go over to just listening to records, and try to comprehend the text. That is the fastest way to go over to head copy.

Bob
 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 03:49:06 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
AE4RV
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Posts: 963


WWW

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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 06:57:36 AM »

I used this same course on cassette tape in the eighties when I was little. I got to seven WPM just fine. You will need to switch to computer and/or on-air practice after a while because the record only goes so far and can't generate random text. Memorization of the code groups becomes an issue after a while.
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HFCRUSR
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Posts: 139




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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 08:27:24 AM »

Thanks for the replies all-
already tried lesson 1 EISH5 lol
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AB9NZ
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Posts: 177




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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 12:46:24 PM »

Bob said
Quote
So learn writing down, that is what you are going to do in practice on the ham bands or at proficiency runs at hamfests.
When you start  using Morse on the bands, you are sweating and writing, and when you got the key, you can read from your scribbling back what was really sent, then you comprehend the received message, not earlier.
Bob is absolutely correct. You will learn head copy SIMULTANEOUSLY, the pencil will in no way prevent you from learning head copy. Head copy will come exactly when you are ready. Until then the pencil will keep you from looking like an idiot, because text jotted down will make what is being said obvious, in spite of missed letters or words run together etc.  To me it seems  kinda goofy and rather rude to work someone while missing much of what they are saying just because you're experimenting with forcing head copy. I want to add that I'm speaking from actual recent experience, not looking back with nostalgia about how I wish I had learned. 73 de Tom, ab9nz
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STAYVERTICAL
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 02:38:09 PM »

Using a mill will not slow down your morse, it will enable you to speed it up.
Seagoing Radio Officers were always taught to type out their morse, and from personal experience it is infinitely easier than writing it down.

This assumes you can touch type.
If you hunt and peck typing - then apart from the eye strain headaches, you are going to be stressed out finding the character.
Stress causes adrenaline, and this hormone impairs memory, amongst other things - so you need to be as relaxed as possible.

Of course unless you have a keyboard handy it is not always possible, but I don't see why anyone is limited to using only a pencil, keyboard or head copy.

Professional morse operators in days gone by could use any method of transcribing, and head copy was second nature.
This was only due to continual exposure to morse.

I find in normal CW qso's I jot down the contacts name, etc, or just type these into my logger as he is sending.
This avoids you forgetting these when the XYL comes in and asks if you want a cup of tea or something.

So, in learning morse - for goodness sake, forget all the "systems" - do what is fun and gives you results.
Forget all the "experts" favourite methods (including mine), and just do daily practice, until you get to your goal.

Remember the Aesop fable about "The man, the boy and the donkey".
The man took different experts advice about how he should lead the donkey, eventually losing it in a river.

73 - Rob
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 02:41:30 PM by STAYVERTICAL » Logged
K7KBN
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Posts: 2814




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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 06:12:59 PM »

On my first day at Navy Radioman school in 1963, my instructor certified me as being able to receive 22 words per minute (the requirement for graduation), but since I couldn't TYPE that fast, he took me to Code Control where I was to work with a Chief running punched tapes at specified speeds on a bank of old Boehme keyers.  And practicing typing.

There were always at least five other guys in there, all hams, none of whom could type that well.  The Chief appreciated the help running the tapes, but we mystified him with hamspeak (he wasn't an amateur - he was a Professional)!
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
HFCRUSR
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Posts: 139




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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 08:21:10 PM »

Bob said
Quote
So learn writing down, that is what you are going to do in practice on the ham bands or at proficiency runs at hamfests.
When you start  using Morse on the bands, you are sweating and writing, and when you got the key, you can read from your scribbling back what was really sent, then you comprehend the received message, not earlier.
Bob is absolutely correct. You will learn head copy SIMULTANEOUSLY, the pencil will in no way prevent you from learning head copy. Head copy will come exactly when you are ready. Until then the pencil will keep you from looking like an idiot, because text jotted down will make what is being said obvious, in spite of missed letters or words run together etc.  To me it seems  kinda goofy and rather rude to work someone while missing much of what they are saying just because you're experimenting with forcing head copy. I want to add that I'm speaking from actual recent experience, not looking back with nostalgia about how I wish I had learned. 73 de Tom, ab9nz

Thanks for the replies-I'm sort of committed to it now-it's there so I will get into it. I really want to master code.
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AB9NZ
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Posts: 177




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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 08:40:14 PM »

RXRXRX, I look forward to working your station. Good luck with your training, best of 73, Tom ab9nz
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M0LEP
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Posts: 210




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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 01:22:08 AM »

This assumes you can touch type.

If you can't touch-type, don't be fooled into trying to learn both morse and touch-typing at the same time. Either pick a morse learning method that doesn't involve touch-typing, or go away and learn touch-typing first, and then come back to learning morse afterwards.

So, in learning morse - for goodness sake, forget all the "systems" - do what is fun and gives you results.

Aye. Be honest with yourself about the methods you're using. If it isn't working, don't be afraid to change course, however much folks go on about persistance. I wasted at least a year beating my head against one popular method...
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PA0BLAH
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 03:31:50 AM »

This assumes you can touch type.

If you can't touch-type, don't be fooled into trying to learn both morse and touch-typing at the same time. Either pick a morse learning method that doesn't involve touch-typing, or go away and learn touch-typing first, and then come back to learning morse afterwards.

Right, use hunt and peg method, (two  fingers) when you can't touch-type. Don't go away to learn it first. It has not much sense in CW ham radio.
You can't learn touchtyping the right way with a Morse course, because the characters come in the wrong sequence for learning touch typing, you hardly use the shift, and you are not instructed about the finger setting and which finger to use for a character, and above that the set of Morse characters is smaller than the set of characters on the keyboard..

So, in learning Morse - for goodness sake, forget all the "systems" - do what is fun and gives you results.

So far so good, When you decide to learn Morse code, and at a certain time you don't like it anymore, because you underestimated the time involved and/or the expected progress, then stop? Noway.
When you plan to design a receiver or what have you, and it is a larger project, there certainly will come a moment especially when  unexpected difficulties pop up, that you don't like it anymore. Temporary stalling is no option, after a few month or half a year you forget all about it and have to start all over again when you want to resume.

When you have a paid job, you are (hopefully) used to periods with nice work and periods that you hate it, but you have to go on in order not to get fired. When you are retired, you have to have sufficient discipline to complete the tasks that you plan to do and take the consequences that there will come a period that you don't like it anymore. Keep going when you don't like it anymore.

That is (better: ought to be) the difference between kids playing and retired people.

Aye. Be honest with yourself about the methods you're using. If it isn't working, don't be afraid to change course, however much folks go on about persistence. I wasted at least a year beating my head against one popular method...

Did you change method? What is the method right now?
Did you try Koch with wide character space 20/5, after success narrow it to 20/10 and after success 20/15? Is possible per lesson, but also for the whole course by repeating the course 3 times with increased speed.

Bob
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PA0BLAH
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 04:01:24 AM »

Using a mill will not slow down your morse, it will enable you to speed it up.
Seagoing Radio Officers were always taught to type out their morse, and from personal experience it is infinitely easier than writing it down.

This assumes you can touch type.
If you hunt and peck typing - then apart from the eye strain headaches, you are going to be stressed out finding the character.
Stress causes adrenaline, and this hormone impairs memory, amongst other things - so you need to be as relaxed as possible.

Of course unless you have a keyboard handy it is not always possible, but I don't see why anyone is limited to using only a pencil, keyboard or head copy.

Professional morse operators in days gone by could use any method of transcribing, and head copy was second nature.
This was only due to continual exposure to morse.

I find in normal CW qso's I jot down the contacts name, etc, or just type these into my logger as he is sending.
This avoids you forgetting these when the XYL comes in and asks if you want a cup of tea or something.

73 - Rob

OK Rob,

My point is that even when you can touch-type, just as you can write, that when you learned the code by writing, which is normal for hams, because it was a license requirement, you fall back in your speed to half or less when you try to learn an other copy method. So when you learned Morse code by writing it down, your speed falls back for a learning period, when you try to touch type, also when you try to head copy. After a learning time, you get faster but surely not at once.

Of course, when you can copy faster then you can write, after a learning period you catch up, and type faster.
The point I made however is that you fall back in speed when you start with touch typing as copy method, even when you are used to touch-typing text from paper, from a screen, or typing out what you think. The fall back is huge.

For hams touch typing has hardly sense. You start with writing, writing makes sense, a pencil is always at hand, a typewriter not. Proficiency runs at hamfests also require writing. When you learn copy code on a typewriter first, you will fall back when you want also to write. Best thing is to do it by turn. Few exercises writing, few exercises touch typing.

Copy by head may come automatically, but for hams it is very usefull, you comprehend the message while receiving, and you are not limited in speed by writing, and you can always copy Morse, also while driving a car.

So hams require only writing and copy by head.


Bob

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