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Author Topic: short wave listening as a hobby is finished.  (Read 151770 times)
N9OGL
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2015, 05:56:25 PM »

oh yeah, the FCC could go about "saving" shortwave broadcasting, but apparently don't want to.
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N8YX
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2015, 06:15:18 AM »

oh yeah, the FCC could go about "saving" shortwave broadcasting, but apparently don't want to.

In the grand (world) scheme of things, an FCC policy reversal regarding domestic SWBC regulations won't do squat with regards to "saving" anything.
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N9OGL
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2015, 10:56:46 AM »

What do you mean? You seemed to lose me there. If the power levels were reduced the shortwave broadcast would probably go back up. Allowing shortwave stations to run say 5 am to 5pm daily would also help (SW stations aren't required like AM / FM to be on 24/7) One of the main reason for the cost is the energy (electricity) to run 50+KW stations
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K5RT
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2015, 03:58:20 PM »

It's not just the electricity, what do you do for programming material? Live On air Personalities? How do you pay them? Advertising? Good luck with that with an audience of a few thousand, especially when that number is spread across thousands of square miles. Do you think our Goverment would have any reason at all to fund internal SWBC services? What would be the justification?

Yes, there are places where internal SWBC services survive; China and Brazil are two examples. The reason it survives is where population densities are low and distances are great, it's the best solution. But, for the most part internal SWBC services have been replaced by the Internet which is delivered by cellular telephony to the 3rd world.

In the continental USA internal SWBC service won't work. TV, cable/broadband/satellite are ubiquitous. AM and FM broadcasting struggle to remain relevant today.

Certainly the romance of listening to SWBC is strong with those of us who grew up during the Cold War, but that's the way it's going to stay for most, nostalgia.
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N8YX
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« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2015, 07:21:03 AM »

'RT nailed it.

As an example, almost all of the medium power/local-coverage, "tropical" SW operations (typically, those in the 120/90/60M bands) have been replaced by the Internet or by VHF-FMBC transmitters. The FCC could grant a gazillion low-power licenses tomorrow for those allocations...but who would listen? A few die-hard hobbyists bent on reliving youthful nights staring at the tuning dials of their DX-160 or SW-717 receivers?

The same argument surfaces from time to time when people speak of expanding the Class D CB allocation within U.S. governance boundaries. As with most SWBC and practically all marine comms, more efficient information-exchange technologies rendered CB radio obsolete to almost everyone but the die-hard skip-shooter or over-the-road trucker...and I hear less and less of the latter on the road these days.

Cold-war shortwave broadcasting wasn't instituted for the purposes of aggrandizing the egos of the station owners/operators. No, it served a more serious purpose: The delivery mechanism of the propaganda war. With the fall of the Soviet Union, the targeted "external programmes" of organizations such as the VOA, BBC along with their proxies (e.g., Radio Free Europe) were no longer necessary in the grand scheme of things.

There doesn't seem to be much of a private market for SWBC content these days, and without such a market no one has the incentive to develop and distribute affordable HF receiver equipment for the masses. Thus, expect shrinkage on both sides of the aisle to continue.
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N9OGL
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« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 03:13:21 PM »

Let me modify this

my point is maybe it's time to redefine Shortwave broadcasting. Both Nationally and Internationally. Although shortwave broadcasting is going down, that doesn't SW listener are. Thanks to the internet and people who have SW receivers hook to the internet. people are allow to and can listen to the SW band over the Internet. I am one of those such persons, My receiver is a ICOM PCR 2500 and it hooked to the internet. Anyone can access it and listen to the Shortwave bands any time. My point is people don't have to buy SW receiver to listen to the SW bands any more. To say people don't listen to SW isn't not necessary true, there are various ways to listen to SW radio.
The main problem is the NAB and Broadcasters. FM and AM radio doesn't want the competition, just like back in 80's they tried to stop Low Power TV, in 2000 they tried to stop Low power FM. They even ran a campaign against to stop XM radio when it first came out. The broadcast don't and can't accept change.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 03:35:23 PM by N9OGL » Logged
WW7KE
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« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2015, 07:59:30 PM »

Let me modify this

my point is maybe it's time to redefine Shortwave broadcasting. Both Nationally and Internationally. Although shortwave broadcasting is going down, that doesn't SW listener are.

Outside of China and a few other Asian and maybe African countries, the number of people who listen to shortwave broadcasters is miniscule  -- single-digits in percentage -- and most of those are hams.

Quote
Thanks to the internet and people who have SW receivers hook to the internet. people are allow to and can listen to the SW band over the Internet. I am one of those such persons, My receiver is a ICOM PCR 2500 and it hooked to the internet. Anyone can access it and listen to the Shortwave bands any time. My point is people don't have to buy SW receiver to listen to the SW bands any more. To say people don't listen to SW isn't not necessary true, there are various ways to listen to SW radio.

I'm willing to bet that these online receivers have very few users each.  Each server can only handle a fixed number of ports to connect to.

Quote
The main problem is the NAB and Broadcasters. FM and AM radio doesn't want the competition, just like back in 80's they tried to stop Low Power TV, in 2000 they tried to stop Low power FM. They even ran a campaign against to stop XM radio when it first came out. The broadcast don't and can't accept change. 

The main problem is that the Cold War is over, and Hallicrafters and most of the other quality receiver manufacturers went out of business decades ago.  There is statistically zero interest in shortwave in the US, except for hams.  This has been the case for about 25 years.

I'd like to see real sales figures for general coverage receivers from Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, and the others.  Hundreds of units each?  Maybe a couple thousand?  And how many of those are bought by non-hams?
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KJ6ZOL
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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2015, 01:07:50 AM »

The last real tabletop general coverage SW rx's by Kenwood/Yaesu/Icom were made around 25 years ago, in the early 90s. Drake went out of business around that time, so did Heathkit. Even back then there was virtually no demand for rx-only sets. Such rigs rarely show up on Ebay, and when they do they fetch around $200 or so. The main manufacturer of SW portables is the Chinese govt via Tecsun.
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K5RT
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2015, 04:27:20 AM »

I don't understand (unless it's to access a remote receiver), why listening to streaming audio via the Internet is referred to as SWL.

Shortwave Listening (by its very definition) is using a receiver with antenna as required to detect radio signals transmitted between 3 and 30 MHz. Along with the desired programming, you get fading, static crashes, local noises and the odd interference caused by other broadcasters, utility stations or jamming. The "experience" is also "enhanced" by your Star Roamer drifting and it's broad as a bar door selectivity. Not to mention your Dad telling you to "Turn that Commie garbage off".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening to the programming from Radio Prague via streaming audio on the Internet, just don't tell us it's SWLing, it's not.

Paul
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N8YX
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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2015, 07:47:10 AM »

There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening to the programming from Radio Prague via streaming audio on the Internet, just don't tell us it's SWLing, it's not.
This deserves another bolding.

And it also beggars the question of "Why the middleman"?

If Radio Prague streams their programming directly (and most of the major SWBC stations do these days), why should an intermediary station be required?

A far more productive use of a remote receiver might be the monitoring of the VHF/UHF bands and streaming the audio of interesting content. Since all the cell-phone carriers have gone digital, that particular swath of the spectrum is useless. So...there must be something left that's good to listen to, right?
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N9OGL
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« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2015, 11:10:13 AM »

I don't understand (unless it's to access a remote receiver), why listening to streaming audio via the Internet is referred to as SWL.

Shortwave Listening (by its very definition) is using a receiver with antenna as required to detect radio signals transmitted between 3 and 30 MHz. Along with the desired programming, you get fading, static crashes, local noises and the odd interference caused by other broadcasters, utility stations or jamming. The "experience" is also "enhanced" by your Star Roamer drifting and it's broad as a bar door selectivity. Not to mention your Dad telling you to "Turn that Commie garbage off".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening to the programming from Radio Prague via streaming audio on the Internet, just don't tell us it's SWLing, it's not.

Paul

What I was referring to was SW receivers hooked to the internet and can be accessed remotely like here: http://www.globaltuners.com/ Like I said I have a PCR-2500 hooked up to the internet which anyone can access and tune to any frequency they want. it goes from 3Khz to 4Ghz. (cellphones blocked) 
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N8YX
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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2015, 06:59:32 AM »

I have a PCR-2500 hooked up to the internet which anyone can access and tune to any frequency they want. it goes from 3Khz to 4Ghz. (cellphones blocked) 
Does the software controlling it have a logging function which shows the frequencies it's tuned to, and which ones are tuned most often?

If so, that might be an interesting data-set to look at.
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K5TED
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« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2015, 07:59:35 PM »

I have a PCR-2500 hooked up to the internet which anyone can access and tune to any frequency they want. it goes from 3Khz to 4Ghz. (cellphones blocked) 
Does the software controlling it have a logging function which shows the frequencies it's tuned to, and which ones are tuned most often?

If so, that might be an interesting data-set to look at.

Remote receivers on the internet are just an extension speaker for a communications receiver. There is no definition of 'SWLing' that precludes the use of extension speakers.

Remote receivers on the internet allow for listening to stations that otherwise simply are not receivable from a given location.

Remote receivers on the internet can serve as auxiliary receivers when your local conditions are too noisy.

Remote receivers on the internet are good for checking propagation.

Remote receivers on the internet are a great tool for those who are inclined to use them.
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KAPT4560
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« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2015, 08:44:26 AM »

 Speaking of propagation, it is interesting to use an antenna in a different part of the world at a different time of day than yours. You hear things there that you can't hear here. http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
 There are still parts of the world with no internet service and no reliable electricity. FM is virtually useless in mountainous regions. Shortwave is still in use. Shortwave stations are much like an ambassador and teacher to many.
 I have the National by my bedside as a quiet way to bring a close to the day.
 I build tactical radios at work and HF is still very relevant and popular enough to keep the orders coming in.
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IZ5PQT
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« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2015, 01:01:22 PM »

I fear that I will have to give up SWLing because of interference from VDSL2 internet on nearby phone lines.
Since two weeks I can only listen to the strongest stations and also my ham activity is confined to
above 14 Mhz (VDSL2 spectrum ends at 12 MHz).
So Internet is killing radio in several ways!
At the moment a solution for SWLing is in fact the University of Twente SDR remote radio mentioned above

73 Giovanni
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