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Author Topic: Sherwood Engineering Receiver Test Data  (Read 12946 times)
NI0Z
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2012, 02:51:32 PM »

I don't know, mine doesn't hum, buzz or do otherwise. 
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2012, 03:14:43 PM »

What's up with the speaker hum?

Phil AD5X reports:

------------------
SN1480 kit arrived yesterday (ordered the week after Dayton). Finished it up in
about 2.5-3 hours. I don't have any hardware stuck to the speaker, and I have
the required clearances around the speaker and the bottom cover. Unfortunately,
I have the audio distortion. It occurs around an audio setting of 20 or so.
Everything else appears to work great, but I was hoping that all the things
discovered so far would fix the speaker buzz. I know that some say to use
headphones and external speakers. I use headphones a lot. But the audio
distortion should not be there with the internal speaker.

Anyway, I've found that I can squeeze the upper clamshell right around the 4-pin
header that has the cutout below the SPOT button and the buzz completely goes
away. I think what I'm doing is separating the top and bottom covers a little.
I need to experiment a little more. I'm going to try inserting a piece of black
electrical tape between the clamshells and see if that does the trick.
Unfortunately, I'll be tied up on other things for the rest of the day, but just
wanted to pass this on FWIW.

Phil - AD5X
------------------

Mr. Elecraft writes:

---------------
The KX3 was designed from the beginning to optimize the use of DSP-
based stereo audio. If you use headphones or dual external (powered)
speakers, you'll be able to use:

- stereo receive (AFX = DELAY)
- pitch mapping: low pitch left, high pitch right (AFX = PITCH)
- dual watch (DUAL RX = ON)

These modes provide a much richer listening experience than mono, and
this is one of the most important differences between the KX3 (and K3)
and other rigs.

Using headphones will also reduce current drain on receive, which is a
consideration for battery power.

Like the KX1, the KX3 is a very small radio. The KX1 has no internal
speaker, but we wanted to put a small one in the KX3 if only for
occasional or emergency use. Our goal is to keep improving the utility
of the internal speaker, but meanwhile, I hope all KX3 owners will
take advantage of the KX3's stereo capabilities.


73,
Wayne
N6KR
-----------------

So basically, don't use the internal speaker regularly or unless it is an emergency.  Another downside of the "best radio".

Gene
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 03:19:13 PM by KE5JPP » Logged
NI0Z
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Posts: 560


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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2012, 03:59:01 PM »

As I said, I don't have that issue.

This is silly stuff, I went and googled TS 590 issues and problems, apparently there are unresolved ALC issues, weak SSB power issues and poor paint and build issues.  Not good at all!

Review rating here on eHam is 4.6 with over 100 reviews.  There are more than 20 radios over it that fair better with more than 100 reviews.

I could go find ICOM, Yaesu, Flex, and a myriad of others all having issues.

It's my belief that the ratings average though says a lot! Especially when you get over 100 reviews.  That means hams like their rig and think highly of it and when we go over 100 we account for the lemon factor as well.

I think your problems are with the users of these radios,who seem to love them so much.  It's funny because you have these small American companies making products so good that their users become fanatically in love with them and we bash the radios rather than the people.  Isn't that ironic?  The company produced something so good we despise the buyer of the product and blame the manufacturer.  Now here is what is even more ironic, the users,of other products don't feel the love for their product and so they get angry and jealous and bash the product because their product apparently isn't as good.

Have fun guys!  Radio spec wars won't occupy my time here any more.  It's easy to see who has an axe to grind here and who doesn't.  Totally obvious!  And yes, it's easy to see the fan boys who attack other radios that the fan boys don't own.  Totally obvious!

http://www.google.com/search?q=waxumkenwood+TS590+problems&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&q=kenwood+TS590s+issues&oq=kenwood+TS590s+issues&gs_l=tablet-gws.3...10610.10610.2.10806.1.1.0.0.0.0.166.166.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.qJM-VKUJqVo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d9e56c8a564e707b&biw=1024&bih=672

Enjoy your rigs, I know I am enjoying all of mine, one by ICOM, one by Yaesu, one by Flex, one by Elecraft and one by wouxun.  They all have their good and they all have their bad.  I have seen users hate all of them and love all of them...  I'd own a TS590 I'd I could as well, because I have hear good things along with the bad.  You can accuse me of many things but a fan boy you won't!  Lol. I will tell you the dirt on all these radios that I have found if you want.

You can google any radio for issues and see,the dirt!

They are just radios!  Smiley. Consumer products..

And with that I will leave you alone Gene.  You can say whatever you want now and have the last word, no worries that I will respond.  Enjoy!

73
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 04:40:33 PM by NI0Z » Logged

ZENKI
Member

Posts: 906




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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 05:00:26 PM »

The real problem is that so many hams have become emotional brand worshiping delinquents. If the same effort was put into  reviewing a radio and legitimately  highlighting  its true  faults and weaknesses we would be all better informed consumers. There is only technically right and technically wrong in science, there is no room for voodoo, personal bias or hidden agendas.

The problems with radios like the TS590s and many others is that you cant discuss these problems on various reflectors and Yahoo groups without being censored, banned or being bullied. There is no free speech rights on these forums and most owners of these groups are emotional  brand worshiping groupies.  If a radio has a problem  you should  be able to say and be free to do so. If someone is clearly wrong or used incorrect measurement methods these people can have their methods queried or corrected, there is no need for censorship. Unfortunately hams cant handle this kind of open free spirited discussion and  thats why they always ask for a callsign, because its  easy to
offer a life ban  on comments that are related to your callsign. You wont find groups for high performance car, planes or medical discussion groups asking if you have a respective license. Hams cant seem to handle the concept of free speech or opinions without censorship.

The heated discussion here on Flexradios is a good example, and thats before we start talking about the TenTec and Elecraft reflectors which are  the most extreme forms of koolaid drinking and brand worshiping you can encounter.

The real problem is that  all this measured data needs to be understood and studied. Many hams dont have the technical  skills too interpret  this data in a meaningful way that makes them feel easy with their purchasing decisions. Ignorance is bliss. When confronted with technical facts, hams turn into soft marshmallows and start behaving and thinking emotionally throwing  science out of the window. Many are  behaving like dummy consumers who can only make decisions on emotional push buttons like brand names. You typically see this  with comments like "I am Icom man" what hope have you got of changing this sort to thinking to something like "I only buy the best technically performing radio"? 

As hams technical skills become poorer there is little chance of convincing manufacturers  that they should do their job better. If the ham industry was like the sport car industry which designs cars to be the best and the fastests in the world we would  not  have all these problems with radios. Even sports cars consumers can take the time to try and understand what makes a good fast car, why are hams so lazy that they cant be bothered trying to understand what they are buying?  Just join any car discussion group and  consumers on these groups will call it as they see it, they dont have brand worshipping moderators banning people because they think that a particular brand of car is crap and they say so. All we get on ham forums is censorship  and name calling, car enthusiasts will put their products to the test and put their money where there mouths are. Why cant hams handle technical performance measurements that says  a radio is a splattering piece of junk or has a poor receiver? This cultural ethic in our hobby is bizarre for supposedly technical hobbyists. 

Receiver and transmitter performance numbers are useless if the people who are reading them dont understand what they are saying exactly. Its the reason why we have deceptive advertising in ham magazines by big Japanese radio companies, they know that most hams dont understand what they are talking about so they make themselves look good by talking bullshit and playing phoney receiver number games. Unfortunately for them the truth can be established  and measured and thats great.

Issues like the TS590S is having with ALC and power shoot is a common problem on many radios, its so easy too measure yet you  would think that something that is so easy to measure would be reported in QST reviews. They can measure difficult things like phase noise and 3rd order intercept point but cant measure something as simple as ALC splatter and power overshoot. My feeling is that the ARRL does not want to be critical about any radio, everybody knows this. Its then no surprise that you get silly reviews telling other hams that this brand X radio is better than the other when reality they all have technical flaws.

Technical performance numbers for both receivers and transmitters is really a science, its just too bad that the likes of the ARRL cant handle the controversy that these true technical evaluations will cause for the manufacturers. The end result is  that we end up with crap equipment, this is the saddest part of this technical correct political behavior, it prevents us from using and owning better products.

As I said, I don't have that issue.

This is silly stuff, I went and googled TS 590 issues and problems, apparent their are unresolved ALC issues, weak SSB power issues and poor paint and build issues.  Not good at all!

Review rating here on eHam is 4.6 with over 100 reviews.  There are more than 20 radios over it that fair better with more than 100 reviews.

I could go find ICOM, Yaesu, Flex, and a myriad of others all having issues.

It's my belief that the ratings average though says a lot! Especially when you get over 100 reviews.  That means hams like their rig and think highly of it and when we go over 100 we account for the lemon factor as well.

Have fun guys!  Radio spec wars won't occupy my time here any more.  It's easy to see who has an axe to grind here and who doesn't.  Totally obvious!  And yes, it's easy to see the fan boys who attack other radios that the fan boys don't own.  Totally obvious!

http://www.google.com/search?q=waxumkenwood+TS590+problems&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&q=kenwood+TS590s+issues&oq=kenwood+TS590s+issues&gs_l=tablet-gws.3...10610.10610.2.10806.1.1.0.0.0.0.166.166.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.qJM-VKUJqVo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d9e56c8a564e707b&biw=1024&bih=672

Enjoy your rigs, I know I am enjoying all of mine, one by ICOM, one by Yaesu, one by Flex, one by Elecraft and one by wouxun.  They all have their good and they all have their bad.  I have seen users hate all of them and love all of them...

You can google any radio for issues and see,the dirt!

They are just radios!  Smiley. Consumer products..

73
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KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2012, 05:15:41 PM »

As I said, I don't have that issue.

This is silly stuff, I went and googled TS 590 issues and problems, apparently there are unresolved ALC issues, weak SSB power issues and poor paint and build issues.  Not good at all!

Review rating here on eHam is 4.6 with over 100 reviews.  There are more than 20 radios over it that fair better with more than 100 reviews.

I could go find ICOM, Yaesu, Flex, and a myriad of others all having issues.

It's my belief that the ratings average though says a lot! Especially when you get over 100 reviews.  That means hams like their rig and think highly of it and when we go over 100 we account for the lemon factor as well.

I think your problems are with the users of these radios,who seem to love them so much.  It's funny because you have these small American companies making products so good that their users become fanatically in love with them and we bash the radios rather than the people.  Isn't that ironic?  The company produced something so good we despise the buyer of the product and blame the manufacturer.  Now here is what is even more ironic, the users,of other products don't feel the love for their product and so they get angry and jealous and bash the product because their product apparently isn't as good.

Have fun guys!  Radio spec wars won't occupy my time here any more.  It's easy to see who has an axe to grind here and who doesn't.  Totally obvious!  And yes, it's easy to see the fan boys who attack other radios that the fan boys don't own.  Totally obvious!

http://www.google.com/search?q=waxumkenwood+TS590+problems&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&q=kenwood+TS590s+issues&oq=kenwood+TS590s+issues&gs_l=tablet-gws.3...10610.10610.2.10806.1.1.0.0.0.0.166.166.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.qJM-VKUJqVo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d9e56c8a564e707b&biw=1024&bih=672

Enjoy your rigs, I know I am enjoying all of mine, one by ICOM, one by Yaesu, one by Flex, one by Elecraft and one by wouxun.  They all have their good and they all have their bad.  I have seen users hate all of them and love all of them...  I'd own a TS590 I'd I could as well, because I have hear good things along with the bad.  You can accuse me of many things but a fan boy you won't!  Lol. I will tell you the dirt on all these radios that I have found if you want.

You can google any radio for issues and see,the dirt!

They are just radios!  Smiley. Consumer products..

And with that I will leave you alone Gene.  You can say whatever you want now and have the last word, no worries that I will respond.  Enjoy!

73

Are you done with your temper tantrum/rant?

See, this illustrates the problem with Hams like you, NI0Z.  When your favorite new toy is exposed to have problems, you have a fit and you pout.  Once you are done pouting, you get angry and go on the attack.  You think I have attacked your perfect radio so now you think you have to attack a radio you think that I am in love with.  I am aware of the various TS-590s downsides.  ALL RADIOS HAVE DOWNSIDES AND ARE NOT PERFECT.  You can spend the rest of your life telling me all the downsides of the equipment I own and, if they are real demonstrable problems or issues, I will agree with you and I certainly will not be offended.  THIS IS NOT A RELIGION.  So you have failed to injure me by your digging up of the dirt on the TS-590s.  

Unlike you, I don't pout, sulk, have a temper tantrum, or lash back angrily when problems are pointed out.  Roll Eyes  I discuss them rationally.  I also post links to the reported problems to back up what I am saying, unlike you, who just spits out a bunch of problems he sees on a google search but has not read or tried to understand first.  It just makes you look petty and uninformed.

Gene
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 05:25:32 PM by KE5JPP » Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2012, 07:29:31 PM »

The real problem is that so many hams have become emotional brand worshiping delinquents. If the same effort was put into  reviewing a radio and legitimately  highlighting  its true  faults and weaknesses we would be all better informed consumers. There is only technically right and technically wrong in science, there is no room for voodoo, personal bias or hidden agendas.

The problems with radios like the TS590s and many others is that you cant discuss these problems on various reflectors and Yahoo groups without being censored, banned or being bullied. There is no free speech rights on these forums and most owners of these groups are emotional  brand worshiping groupies.  If a radio has a problem  you should  be able to say and be free to do so. If someone is clearly wrong or used incorrect measurement methods these people can have their methods queried or corrected, there is no need for censorship. Unfortunately hams cant handle this kind of open free spirited discussion and  thats why they always ask for a callsign, because its  easy to
offer a life ban  on comments that are related to your callsign. You wont find groups for high performance car, planes or medical discussion groups asking if you have a respective license. Hams cant seem to handle the concept of free speech or opinions without censorship.

The heated discussion here on Flexradios is a good example, and thats before we start talking about the TenTec and Elecraft reflectors which are  the most extreme forms of koolaid drinking and brand worshiping you can encounter.

The real problem is that  all this measured data needs to be understood and studied. Many hams dont have the technical  skills too interpret  this data in a meaningful way that makes them feel easy with their purchasing decisions. Ignorance is bliss. When confronted with technical facts, hams turn into soft marshmallows and start behaving and thinking emotionally throwing  science out of the window. Many are  behaving like dummy consumers who can only make decisions on emotional push buttons like brand names. You typically see this  with comments like "I am Icom man" what hope have you got of changing this sort to thinking to something like "I only buy the best technically performing radio"? 

As hams technical skills become poorer there is little chance of convincing manufacturers  that they should do their job better. If the ham industry was like the sport car industry which designs cars to be the best and the fastests in the world we would  not  have all these problems with radios. Even sports cars consumers can take the time to try and understand what makes a good fast car, why are hams so lazy that they cant be bothered trying to understand what they are buying?  Just join any car discussion group and  consumers on these groups will call it as they see it, they dont have brand worshipping moderators banning people because they think that a particular brand of car is crap and they say so. All we get on ham forums is censorship  and name calling, car enthusiasts will put their products to the test and put their money where there mouths are. Why cant hams handle technical performance measurements that says  a radio is a splattering piece of junk or has a poor receiver? This cultural ethic in our hobby is bizarre for supposedly technical hobbyists. 

Receiver and transmitter performance numbers are useless if the people who are reading them dont understand what they are saying exactly. Its the reason why we have deceptive advertising in ham magazines by big Japanese radio companies, they know that most hams dont understand what they are talking about so they make themselves look good by talking bullshit and playing phoney receiver number games. Unfortunately for them the truth can be established  and measured and thats great.

Issues like the TS590S is having with ALC and power shoot is a common problem on many radios, its so easy too measure yet you  would think that something that is so easy to measure would be reported in QST reviews. They can measure difficult things like phase noise and 3rd order intercept point but cant measure something as simple as ALC splatter and power overshoot. My feeling is that the ARRL does not want to be critical about any radio, everybody knows this. Its then no surprise that you get silly reviews telling other hams that this brand X radio is better than the other when reality they all have technical flaws.

Technical performance numbers for both receivers and transmitters is really a science, its just too bad that the likes of the ARRL cant handle the controversy that these true technical evaluations will cause for the manufacturers. The end result is  that we end up with crap equipment, this is the saddest part of this technical correct political behavior, it prevents us from using and owning better products.

Alright, so if we go by the lab tests, go by eHam ratings then the KX3 is overall the best HF transceiver for base, best for QRP and the best SDR.

Let's see how many hams here can handle the just the facts.  note, I have not done a review and I did not do the test and I don't care if it's the best or not, so far I think the radio is fun, that's my opinion right now.

This will be a hoot!
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NI0Z
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Posts: 560


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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 07:49:23 PM »

TS590s

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?331459-KENWOOD-TS-590s-ALC-Problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBeO8zcX7yc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Review by GI0ZGB
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/9266

Top three reviews
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/9266?page=11

And then there is this, made by a K3 owner? Is this true?
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/New-Kenwood-TS0-590-td5647134.html



« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 08:52:32 PM by NI0Z » Logged

W4ZV
Member

Posts: 84


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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2012, 03:21:18 AM »


So basically, don't use the internal speaker regularly or unless it is an emergency.  Another downside of the "best radio".

Real DXers don't use speakers.  I learned that as a 12 year old nearly 56 years ago before making the first DXCC as a Novice.   Wink

73,  Bill
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KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2012, 05:18:58 AM »


So basically, don't use the internal speaker regularly or unless it is an emergency.  Another downside of the "best radio".

Real DXers don't use speakers.  I learned that as a 12 year old nearly 56 years ago before making the first DXCC as a Novice.   Wink

73,  Bill

The designers of the KX3 must not be "Real DXers" like you.  Wink Otherwise, they would have not even bothered to give the KX3 an internal speaker.  Cheesy  

However, the KX3 designers did provide the KX3 with an internal speaker, and like Phil AD5X says, it should at least work correctly without buzz or distortion.  Mr. Elecraft making excuses that the internal speaker should only be used in an emergency is kind of funny, don't you think?

Gene
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 05:54:20 AM by KE5JPP » Logged
W4ZV
Member

Posts: 84


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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2012, 06:13:39 AM »

The designers of the KX3 must not be "Real DXers" like you.   Wink  Otherwise, they would have not even bothered to give the KX3 an internal speaker.   Cheesy   

Sounds good to me!  My ultralight QRP rig weighs 3 ounces including paddle, ear buds and LiPO battery:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4758

73,  Bill

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KE5JPP
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2012, 06:18:53 AM »

The designers of the KX3 must not be "Real DXers" like you.   Wink  Otherwise, they would have not even bothered to give the KX3 an internal speaker.   Cheesy  

Sounds good to me!  My ultralight QRP rig weighs 3 ounces including paddle, ear buds and LiPO battery:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4758

73,  Bill

And it costs about 1/10th of what the KX3 does.  I bet it is a lot more fun to operate too!

Lot's of good stuff at: http://kd1jv.qrpradio.com/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT_Sprint/

Gene
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 06:20:47 AM by KE5JPP » Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1626




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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2012, 06:24:57 AM »

Sounds good to me!  My ultralight QRP rig weighs 3 ounces including paddle, ear buds and LiPO battery:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4758

73,  Bill
Nice,
Now that is what I think of when QRP comes to mind.  Cheesy

I too use headphones a lot - but not all the time, especially ragchewing on SSB. My own opinion on the KX3 speaker is if they put one there, it should work acceptably. I also have a real problem with radios that do not provide an audio amp to drive an external speaker. My Flexradio 5K required powered speakers. Powered Speakers that are external to the radio provide a wonderful entry point for RFI. Not a problem with QRP but I definitely do not want external powered speakers with higher power rigs.

Stan K9IUQ
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2012, 07:41:18 AM »

KX3 speaker problems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQRdj1LWjWM&feature=related
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ZENKI
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Posts: 906




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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 02:47:23 AM »

The next round of problems on the KX3 will be those silly 3.5mm connectors. They are notoriously unreliable and the worst possible choice for a  connector that will be plugged in and out a lot.  They   will be source of constant intermittent connections over time. The cheap crap chinese packaged cords that come with the radio  are totally crap and will just fall apart with use. I have boxes full of these cords from PC and other audio devices that are faulty.

There is an abundance of decent quality multi pin miniature mil spec connectors that could have been used.  It would have been  far simpler to use a mil spec multi pin round connector and have a small breakout box for whatever you wanted. The standard mil MIC/handset connector H250U would have been a better connector and it would  have opened a new microphone handset source for the KX3. My  K2 has  this failed 3.5mm connector on the front panel which will be a PITA to remove. If the sockets fails you will have a  big job on your hands trying to unsolder it from the PCB.

Another better choice would have been one of  the shielded RJ45 ethernet connectors with a break out box. A breakout out  box with a small RJ45 pig tail cable would have worked. A cluster of 3.5mm connectors in the breakout box where they could be easily serviced would have been a better option

I wish the KX3 users good luck, they will certainly need it will all those cheesy 3.5mm connectors that will fail. The KX3 does not impressive me because of it lack of ruggedness which is really is a requirement for frequent portable operation.

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KE5JPP
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 02:58:39 AM »

The next round of problems on the KX3 will be those silly 3.5mm connectors. They are notoriously unreliable and the worst possible choice for a  connector that will be plugged in and out a lot.  They   will be source of constant intermittent connections over time. The cheap crap chinese packaged cords that come with the radio  are totally crap and will just fall apart with use. I have boxes full of these cords from PC and other audio devices that are faulty.

There is an abundance of decent quality multi pin miniature mil spec connectors that could have been used.  It would have been  far simpler to use a mil spec multi pin round connector and have a small breakout box for whatever you wanted. The standard mil MIC/handset connector H250U would have been a better connector and it would  have opened a new microphone handset source for the KX3. My  K2 has  this failed 3.5mm connector on the front panel which will be a PITA to remove. If the sockets fails you will have a  big job on your hands trying to unsolder it from the PCB.

Another better choice would have been one of  the shielded RJ45 ethernet connectors with a break out box. A breakout out  box with a small RJ45 pig tail cable would have worked. A cluster of 3.5mm connectors in the breakout box where they could be easily serviced would have been a better option

I wish the KX3 users good luck, they will certainly need it will all those cheesy 3.5mm connectors that will fail. The KX3 does not impressive me because of it lack of ruggedness which is really is a requirement for frequent portable operation.


Unfortunately to make it rugged like you want, the KX3 would cost a lot more than $1000.

Gene
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