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Author Topic: NH8S may shut down early  (Read 5381 times)
WW3QB
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Posts: 697




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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 10:31:59 AM »

It's not really the number of licensed hams. It's the number of active DX'ers. Even T32C, who was active for a full month with nine stations (most of the time) on 160m-6m, and begging the last week, worked 49,098 unique calls. Anyone that wanted to work them could have, but only a tiny percentage of licensed hams worldwide did.

NH8S worked 26,010 unique calls, so there was still a lot demand for them when they ended.

Ok, those are facts, but they don't show that DX'ing is on the decrease. Where's the numbers for previous DXpeditions to the same locations?

DXing may not be decreasing, but it seems be be a niche. The original claim was about the age of those in the DXpedition itself. Looking at http://www.nh8s.org/pages/team.html it's 80% gray or bald heads.
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NU4B
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Posts: 2343




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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2012, 10:54:10 AM »

It's not really the number of licensed hams. It's the number of active DX'ers. Even T32C, who was active for a full month with nine stations (most of the time) on 160m-6m, and begging the last week, worked 49,098 unique calls. Anyone that wanted to work them could have, but only a tiny percentage of licensed hams worldwide did.

NH8S worked 26,010 unique calls, so there was still a lot demand for them when they ended.

Ok, those are facts, but they don't show that DX'ing is on the decrease. Where's the numbers for previous DXpeditions to the same locations?

DXing may not be decreasing, but it seems be be a niche. The original claim was about the age of those in the DXpedition itself. Looking at http://www.nh8s.org/pages/team.html it's 80% gray or bald heads.

It seems to me that those going on Dxpedition would naturally be older. You would need the time and the money to invest in such a project and it seems that would for the most part mean older people. Younger people just starting their careers and families would find it a bit more difficult. Maybe its me, but it seems there younger Dxpeditioneers from other continents.
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N4CR
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Posts: 1702




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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2012, 11:34:12 AM »

DXing may not be decreasing, but it seems be be a niche. The original claim was about the age of those in the DXpedition itself. Looking at http://www.nh8s.org/pages/team.html it's 80% gray or bald heads.

....who have disposable income.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
W2IRT
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Posts: 2842


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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2012, 11:55:54 AM »

I'd also add that having 20-plus years in amateur radio, especially digging in pileups and contesting, is where you need to recruit DXpeditioners from. Like contesters, DXpeditioners need to be able to keep big rates up for a long time, and that takes a level of experience that younger or newer hams may not have.

I recall a few operations in the past where green ops were thrown into the fray, where CW guys were handed a mic (or the reverse). Rates were poor, frustrations mounted and we know how that story ends--especially if the band is open to southern Europe. In my view, the biggest step we can take for training DXpeditioners is getting new hams interested in contesting. That means recruiting at Field Day, inviting those who enjoyed FD to sit in at a big station for something like WPX or ARRL-SSB, getting some prime chair time, then giving them a shot at CQWW.
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www.facebook.com/W2IRT
Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
NU1O
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Posts: 2762




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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2012, 12:17:00 PM »

According to the ULS statistics, we have more licensed hams now in the U.S. than any time in the history of the country and amateur radio.

What facts are you looking at that gives the opposite measurement? Facts please.

Morse code has been dropped and all the answers to the multiple choice tests are in the public domain so all that is required to get a license today is an average memory and a little interest.

It took me about 5 months to learn CW when a program was written for the Commodore 64. Prior to that program I tried to learn CW from the ARRL tapes several times and failed. I also took a correspondence course in electronics when I had downtime after selling a business.  I, and many others until things were made very simple, had to maintain a high interest level in amateur radio for at least a year or more before we were finally licensed.  I was actually interested in radio from about age 12 but was not licensed until about age 28 when I sold my first business.

If you gave me a new recruit today I'd have him on the air in one month.

Looking at the total number of licensed hams is very simplistic. It's like looking at the number of registered voters versus how many actually vote in elections.  How many of these hams are active?  That is the important number.

I just typed my zip code into QRZ and I found out there are 39 licensed amateurs.  The ham one street away from me and myself are the only two I would call very active. One ham ( a card checker) is in his eighties and the only time I've heard him on the air in the last few years was to work the new countries so he could stay at the top of the HR list.  Another ham, who used to be very active is now around 80, and he has curtailed most of his activity since his wife became ill.  Lastly, there is a husband and wife team with a small tower (The husband is the one who is really interested in radio). QRZ lists his date of birth as 1933. I've met him at several lunches and he says he mainly listens. I talked to him once in the past two years on the radio.

So out of 39 licensed amateurs in my zip code (the zip is basically the whole town) of about 15,000 we have two very active hams, one who gets on occasionally, one who gets on so he can keep his HR status when a new entity is declared, and the husband and wife team who are basically SWLs.  That means 33 of 39 (~ 85%) of the licensed amateurs in my zip code are inactive or on some band I've never monitored. There are no EME stations in town so we can eliminate that.  I no longer bother with 2 meters but when I was refurbishing my antenna and adding equipment back in 2010 I did talk to my helper on 2 meters for many nights and I never ran into anybody from town.

Why don't you do the same for your zip code and see if you don't come up with similar results?

Oh, how are those for facts?

73,

Chris/NU1O
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K4JK
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Posts: 320




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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 12:21:38 PM »


....who have disposable income.
Even if you have disposable income, it's probably not the most prudent use of it unless you are independently wealthy or are nearing retirement age and have a nest egg built up.

I'm in my mid 30s and would love nothing more than to go on a DXpedition. I am fortunate enough to have enough money saved that I could possibly pay my own way, but that doesn't mean it's financially responsible for me to do it at this point in time. What if my wife gets pregnant? Or one of us loses our job? The money I might spend going to Tuvalu would come in handy then.

Not to mention, it's probably impossible for me to take the amount of time required off of work. Sure, I can theoretically save up enough vacation to have 2 or 3 weeks at a time but it would have to fall in a time where there are no big projects to work on.  Okay, that might be remotely possible, but I also couldn't take the risk of retuning a week late because of boat engine problems, flight cancellations, customs officials, weather, sickness etc. or a combination thereof. Plus we all know expeditions hardly ever begin on time in the first place.

And of course my ability to run a CW pileup isn't up to par yet either!

So, what I hope to do in my amateur career is stay in excellent health in my 40s and 50s, start getting into contesting and become adept at running pileups so that hopefully one day I can go on some of these trips and "pay it forward" like all of the guys who make these trips now do.
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ex W4HFK
N4CR
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Posts: 1702




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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 12:39:00 PM »


....who have disposable income.
Even if you have disposable income, it's probably not the most prudent use of it unless you are independently wealthy or are nearing retirement age and have a nest egg built up.

Your statement was that you only see bald heads on dxpeditions. My reply is that young people don't have disposable income.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
K4JK
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Posts: 320




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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2012, 01:46:48 PM »

I think you have me confused with someone else.
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ex W4HFK
NU1O
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Posts: 2762




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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2012, 09:39:35 PM »

Even if you have disposable income, it's probably not the most prudent use of it unless you are independently wealthy or are nearing retirement age and have a nest egg built up.

I'm in my mid 30s and would love nothing more than to go on a DXpedition. I am fortunate enough to have enough money saved that I could possibly pay my own way, but that doesn't mean it's financially responsible for me to do it at this point in time. What if my wife gets pregnant? Or one of us loses our job? The money I might spend going to Tuvalu would come in handy then.

I've been an investment adviser for about 3 decades and you are a financially prudent young man.  You are exactly correct. At your age you should be trying to save as much as you can so you can build your nest egg for kids, a college fund, a bigger house, and most importantly retirement savings since you may not be able to depend on social security in 30 or 35 years.

W2IRT, had a good idea. Maybe the older guys with money could pay for one young ham's expenses so he could get the experience of going on a DXpedition. Of course, he'd have to be able to handle a CW or Phone pileup but there are young guys who can do that.

If 15 guys are paying the costs it would only add about 7% to their bill to let a young ham who can't afford the cost to make the trip.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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N4CR
Member

Posts: 1702




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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2012, 10:51:51 PM »

A DX scholarship?

Seems like a fine idea. And people compete for scholarships within the guidelines set forth by the scholarship committee. Perhaps age under 40, proficient with CW and demonstrated knowledge of handling a pileup. It's not all that hard to get a pileup going...
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
N2RJ
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »

I don't necessarily think you have to have great teams of kids flocking into the hobby--in fact, I think that would be quite unpleasant. What's needed are college age types and 20- or 30-somethings, who have both intelligence and a little more maturity.

This.

But I think you'll have a hard time with this since at that age you're just settling down, starting a family etc.

However, I find that those who have passion for the hobby started it when they were young. I personally started when I was in high school.
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2706




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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 11:21:44 AM »

Quote
Hobby is Dying

Of course it is!  There may be more people into Ham radio now than in the past but that's only because they removed the code from the exam.  What you have now are lots of new hams who are in their Mid 40's- 50's who always dreamed of being Hams but had no intention of learning Morse code.   Problem is that we are adding middle aged recruits not young eager kids who will be the Flag bearers 50 years from now.


Quote
Always carry a Young Ham on DXpeditions

Probably one of the best ideas I have heard on this forum.  If they did that with every DXpedition and made sure to choose the person wisley, they could build a foundation that will Guarantee the hobby has future DXpedition leaders.

Quote
Kids are only into Twitter, Internet etc...

Tell me about it!  I use to laugh when I was in college and saw those movies depicting a future where some disaster had happened and the survivors had no idea how to rebuild, so society degraded back into the days of bows and arrows.   Hmmm not so funny now!  My nephews have no idea how things work and the most disturbing part is that they dont want to know how it works, they just want to use it!!  When I was their age you dare not leave me in a room with a piece of Tech and a screwdriver or that thing would be pulled to pieces.
That single change with kids today is what really frightens me about the future.


 
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K0OD
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Posts: 2591




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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2012, 12:03:34 PM »

One NH8S op is age 75. I believe several more are over 70. Most appear to be overweight (although a trim K9CT is listed as a competitive runner).

It's like "75 is the new 14." And I don't mean that in a good way. Surely their parents wouldn't approve!

Reminds me of that elderly brit couple they had to rescue (at enormous effort and cost funded by others) from Somali pirates last year. Pirates aren't likely on Swains but heat/humidity like Swain's killed plenty of midwesterners this summer.  
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 12:24:06 PM by K0OD » Logged
AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2012, 02:30:14 PM »

You should be thankful that they activated Swains Island!
Randy AJ4RW
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AF3Y
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Posts: 3881




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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »

I don't necessarily think you have to have great teams of kids flocking into the hobby--in fact, I think that would be quite unpleasant. What's needed are college age types and 20- or 30-somethings, who have both intelligence and a little more maturity.


However, I find that those who have passion for the hobby started it when they were young. I personally started when I was in high school.

Not Everyone..... I started after I retired. Got my license in 2005.  I probably have as much pasion for DX as most. DX IS!  73, Gene AF3Y
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