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Author Topic: FCC Petition to Void antenna restrictions has 4150 signature with 3 days left  (Read 57044 times)
KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2012, 07:03:09 AM »

There are several ways that contracts may become invalid. Some may apply to HOA homeowner contracts. Most laymen will recognize these issues just from conducting personal business. Wink

1. Oral contracts for over $500 are not enforceable in Florida (check the laws in your state).   

2. All involved parties do not have a copy of the contract (anything other than an original signed copy may be challenged).

3. The party or parties that signed the contract did not have the legal authority to do so.

4. The contract is unreasonable (this is a wide open door for argument).

5. The language in the contract is not clear or concise (what contract is these days?).

6. The contract violates the law (there are over 3,000,000 laws in the U.S., take your pick).

7. The requirements of the contract were never enforced or were enforced sporadically or selectively.

8. One, some or all of the parties involved are deceased.

The idea that contracts are written in stone and are forever, no matter what, are incorrect. Things change. People change. Sometimes for the better. A new federal regulation to void antenna restrictions in HOAs would most likely apply to #4. and #6. directly! Grin

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AB4D
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Posts: 301


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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2012, 08:40:30 AM »

There are several ways that contracts may become invalid. Some may apply to HOA homeowner contracts. Most laymen will recognize these issues just from conducting personal business. Wink

1. Oral contracts for over $500 are not enforceable in Florida (check the laws in your state).   

2. All involved parties do not have a copy of the contract (anything other than an original signed copy may be challenged).

3. The party or parties that signed the contract did not have the legal authority to do so.

4. The contract is unreasonable (this is a wide open door for argument).

5. The language in the contract is not clear or concise (what contract is these days?).

6. The contract violates the law (there are over 3,000,000 laws in the U.S., take your pick).

7. The requirements of the contract were never enforced or were enforced sporadically or selectively.

8. One, some or all of the parties involved are deceased.

The idea that contracts are written in stone and are forever, no matter what, are incorrect. Things change. People change. Sometimes for the better. A new federal regulation to void antenna restrictions in HOAs would most likely apply to #4. and #6. directly! Grin



In regard to 1 and 2, HOA documents are never given orally, they are given in writing at settlement, and the purchaser signs a document that states a copy was provided as part of the closing documents.

Nevertheless, it is not the "contract" that places the restrictions on the home.  The sale of the home has little to do with the restrictions.  In most developments, the covenants and restrictions are recorded when the property is subdivided, way before the first home is even built. They run with the land forever, just like easements and other right of ways, no matter who lives in the home, or who dies.

I agree, as you state, if a federal or state law was passed that invalidated antenna restrictions in subdivisions with CC&Rs.  Then yes hams would have a starting point to fight the issue.

However, I highly doubt that will ever happen, considering how much resistance there is from non-hams.  Even so, on the slim chance that it came to fruition. IMO, the issue would be tied up in the courts for years. The HOAs more than likely would file an injunction to stay any implementation of that law. Citing the basis they intend to file a class-action lawsuit, and time is needed to identify and assemble class members before appealing to the courts.  10 years for the conclusion of a class action lawsuit of that magnitude would be routine. 

The restrictions do not seem unreasonable, except to the minority of hams that live in those areas.  What is the argument?  One that will sway the Courts or Congress?  What, they can't put up an effective HF antenna for ECOMM?  That is the only valid point that shows any interest or support from the mainstream, is our ability to provide emergency comms. There is nothing preventing a ham from getting on the air on the bands from 6 meters on up using indoor antennas.  Some hams can even use HF with indoor or outdoor stealth antennas as well.  That argument is weak at best.

Playing the Devils advocate, on the other side of the argument, they can argue, "There already are plenty of established HF ham stations on the air in non-CC&R areas that can easily handle the volume of traffic in any emergency. Why do we need to tread on the majority of non-hams rights and invalidate CC&R, so a handful of hobbyist that previously agreed not to have visible antennas, now can have a antenna outside at home?  Even so, hams who live in a residence with CC&Rs, could easily assemble elsewhere during an emergency, and erect emergency antennas, as hams practice every year at their national annual field day emergency preparedness exercise."

It's a losing battle, one hams likely can never win, due to a lack of mainstream support, finances, and strong argument to the contrary. If someone is truly stuck in a home with CC&Rs, I would contact all of the hams in the development about starting a community ham club, then approach the HOA board as a group stating the purpose and asking if it's possible to erect an antenna system somewhere on the common ground out of sight, or at the Association's main building?  I would be clear, that it would be at no cost to the association and the club would pay for any cost or insurance that my be necessary.  It never hurts to ask.

73
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W6UV
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Posts: 540




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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2012, 09:42:42 AM »

If someone is truly stuck in a home with CC&Rs, I would contact all of the hams in the development about starting a community ham club, then approach the HOA board as a group stating the purpose and asking if it's possible to erect an antenna system somewhere on the common ground out of sight, or at the Association's main building?  I would be clear, that it would be at no cost to the association and the club would pay for any cost or insurance that my be necessary.  It never hurts to ask.

Another good option is to get together with a group of hams in an area, pool money, and buy a few acres of otherwise worthless land no one else wants (next to a dump or swamp, for example) and erect a small shack and towers. Members can either go to the shack to operate or control the station remotely over the Internet.
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AB4D
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Posts: 301


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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2012, 12:50:43 PM »

If someone is truly stuck in a home with CC&Rs, I would contact all of the hams in the development about starting a community ham club, then approach the HOA board as a group stating the purpose and asking if it's possible to erect an antenna system somewhere on the common ground out of sight, or at the Association's main building?  I would be clear, that it would be at no cost to the association and the club would pay for any cost or insurance that my be necessary.  It never hurts to ask.

Another good option is to get together with a group of hams in an area, pool money, and buy a few acres of otherwise worthless land no one else wants (next to a dump or swamp, for example) and erect a small shack and towers. Members can either go to the shack to operate or control the station remotely over the Internet.

Another excellent idea. Cool
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AD5TD
Member

Posts: 114




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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2012, 11:19:32 AM »

If someone is truly stuck in a home with CC&Rs, I would contact all of the hams in the development about starting a community ham club, then approach the HOA board as a group stating the purpose and asking if it's possible to erect an antenna system somewhere on the common ground out of sight, or at the Association's main building?  I would be clear, that it would be at no cost to the association and the club would pay for any cost or insurance that my be necessary.  It never hurts to ask.

Another good option is to get together with a group of hams in an area, pool money, and buy a few acres of otherwise worthless land no one else wants (next to a dump or swamp, for example) and erect a small shack and towers. Members can either go to the shack to operate or control the station remotely over the Internet.

Good Idea!  Especially if the "worthless land" is right next to the HOA's subdivision.  Hi Hi.
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KD8Z
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Posts: 169




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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 04:02:16 PM »

Perhaps the remainder are either building contractors or real estate brokers that like to eliminate any impediment to a sale!  Too many people think money is more important than anything, I guess that is why the US taxpayers were forced to bailout the banks, Savings and Loan's, auto industry and still we wonder why our govt. pays govt. employees more than the guy that pays the govt. employees salery.  Yup, it is a weird world when your property is controlled by the local NAZI HOA!  Just stay the hell off of my property with your HOA!


To my small number of persistently vocal  detractors...

My sincere thanks for your well meaning advice, criticism and comments.  You've done a good job in helping to keep the pot bubbling on the HOA/antenna restrictions issue.   I honestly appreciate your efforts.  I really do mean that.  Thanks also to the 4372 petitioners who saw things differently than you.  Oscar Wilde wrote something along the lines of "The only thing worse than having people talk about you ...is having people not talk about you."  Thanks for talking about me!

Cool...4372 out of hundreds of thousands.....4372 whiners, 3/4 who dont live in HOA's and old farts with buyers remorse..Good luck and 73
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 04:04:28 PM by KD8Z » Logged
AC7DX
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2013, 03:57:41 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7kirdtdI1c&feature=related
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KK4GGL
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Posts: 406




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« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2013, 07:40:58 PM »


Why do you keep posting this link?
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
AC7DX
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2013, 11:13:21 AM »

He is what he is.... and I meant what I said about helping to keep the pot bubbling.  It's all up to congress now.  (God help us all!)

Because I can!
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KD6EVH
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2013, 06:07:56 PM »

I have been following these discussion because I am preparing to purchase a condo (I am just tired of yard work). I checked; my CC&R does have an outdoor antenna restriction (it actually specifies outdoor). However, there is an active amateur radio club with a "shack" in the community center and an exception, in the CC&R, for the radio club antennas. The club has several antennas and a tower already. So, if I want to work HF I go to the community center and use the equipment there (or remote access).

Other bands can be worked from attic antennas.

I am sure that I will find something that will annoy me; but, it doesn't look like the antenna rules will be one of them. Oh, and all motor vehicles must have DOT approved exhaust systems. . .
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aka. AF7JA
W6UV
Member

Posts: 540




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« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2013, 09:04:35 PM »

I am sure that I will find something that will annoy me; but, it doesn't look like the antenna rules will be one of them.

Make sure you've thoroughly read them before signing so you're sure there's nothing in them you absolutely cannot live with. No point in becoming yet another whining homeowner who didn't read the rules, yet voluntarily agreed to them, and now wants the government to bail them out.
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KD8Z
Member

Posts: 169




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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 12:55:13 PM »

Government bailout hell, how about common sense in truth is selling as like truth in lending.  The insane builders, that allow an HOA to run rough shod over the residents is plainly nuts.  They can hide these damn restrictions in so many places that often they cannot be easily found by Charlie Chan, Colombo and Barnaby Jones.
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KF7CG
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2013, 01:04:54 PM »

Very often the HOA doesn't run roughshod over the residents until after the builder has left. The HOA is given tremendous powers in the CC&R documents but the developers are also given full control over the HOA until the developer has sold all his units.

It is when the Developer's board members leave the HOA that the HOA can take a turn toward the Gulag.

KF7CG
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KD8Z
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Posts: 169




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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2013, 07:42:20 PM »

Hmmm, I thought that was what I said!
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 540




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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2013, 03:32:24 PM »

Government bailout hell, how about common sense in truth is selling as like truth in lending.

In California, sellers are required to provide a copy of any covenants and deed restrictions that run with the property to the buyer and the buyer must acknowledge receipt. The buyer has the option at this point to walk away if he doesn't like the conditions placed on the property.

Perhaps you need a similar law in Tennessee.
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