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Author Topic: The WALL  (Read 18755 times)
PA0BLAH
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 08:25:10 AM »

--- Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this fellow's post ---


W7ASA ..._ ._

Mni tks for ur extensive reply.

Don't see it as a topic highjack, it is important to know for starters that it takes time to reach 30 wpm which topic starter has as indicated goal.

The speed he has attained is very good usable on the ham bands, I think his speed is the average speed used, because it is a relaxed straight key speed.

Small percentage , I estimate  less then 5% of hams using CW is able to conversate at 30 wpm. You indicate the huge number of hours involved, as far as I know former civilian examinations required 25 wpm first class, and second class 20 wpm. I suppose the second class was the second goal of the course attendants, when 25 wpm was not reachable within the timespan of the course. It took a few years, not only code, but hours of code each day.

Everybody will finally meet a wall, not to be passed. DJ1YFK world champion call sign copy made a small progress in a short timespan with higher scores then usable. Other guys exercising daily for years are not gaining any progress at lower but still very high speeds. So the personal final walls are at different speeds. It is hard to measure.

General rules seems to be:
1. Younger learns much faster
2. Copy above the comfort zone when you want to increase speed, go back and it is easier.
3. Exercise dedicated, callsigns OR plain text;  copy by head, writing OR a mill
4. There is an amazing amount of variation in daily results.

Bob
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AD7XN
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Posts: 36




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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 05:55:21 PM »

Ray, you gave me a large laugh about where the Army sent you.  I joined the Air Force in 1957, and was sent to electronics school.
When we were about to finish, of course, they gave us three choices of  countries-that had our base's where we would like to be stationed at. Well I had decided that I wanted to go to OCS and pilot training, and therefore I wanted a place that afforded no opportunity whatever to go off base and have fun.  The object being to take the AF OCS corrospondance course to give me a leg up on getting into officer training.  so I picked as #1-Thully Greenland, #2 Alaska, and since I figured that first two were shoe ins, I picked England as #3.  I mean who volunteer's for #1 and 2-right !!!   Yeah you know what they did - Harlingen AFB in deep South Texas 50 miles from the Mexican border, and Matamores,Mexco. Oh yeah-no good times there right ??
Well I took the OCS course anyway, but I think I stayed on base enough to get two chapters completed. Nuff said !!

Matt
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2788




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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »

I worked and got a QSL from KG1AF in Thule, back in the early 1960s.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W1YB
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Posts: 93




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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 07:14:11 AM »

Well, since "Radio Ray" and I spent some time together I am forced comment.  Grin

BTW, Ray, what ever happened to that old Collins you had in your quarters in the barracks?  Wink

I was a linguist in Berlin, but in the prior "bad old days" I was also a 31E Field Radio Operator/Repairer. (At least that's what my 214 claims was my original secondary MOS.) We were trained to send and receive, and if memory serves, 18 was the requirement. I held a ham license earlier in life so I did not find it that difficult to gain the required level of proficiency.

In retrospect, I have come to believe that the best way to learn any language (English/Russian/music/code) is the way human beings have always learned them. We repeat what we hear. We do not try and write it down until we have command of the spoken word. This first came to my attention when I studied Russian. Those who spent the most time in active use of the language excelled in its use.

I learned English, guitar, Morse and Russian by attempting to recreate what I heard. So I believe that sending the characters is important. Actively performing a function is important no matter what function is being learned.

Just MH $00.02 worth

YMMV

Good luck in your pursuit of Morse proficiency.

And finally

All the best, Ray. Or should I say "Vše, co nejlépe"
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K8AXW
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 09:08:06 AM »

All things considered YB, you could also say, "3 dits, 4 dits, 2 dits dah.  ASA, rah, rah, rah!
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W7ASA
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Posts: 221




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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 02:08:29 PM »

ToVAAAAAAAAArish  Abelsov!   Kak pozhivayete?
//best that I can do with a Roman keyboard.//

Good to hear from you!  Yup  Morse is just another language. Truth be told, I WAS a lousy excuse for an 'Army Man', but fortunately, as a pretty good operator I appeared to be too valuable to be tossed into military prison for my caustic 'FTA-Ray' attitude.  ha ha!  Lingy, ditty or 98C, we all had ONE common enemy - The Army and I'm pretty sure the communists were high on that list as well.    Grin

Let's get on the air sometime and pound some code!  We can use a few ._._  and ---- 's thrown in there just for old time's sake.

---

I have a funny story for you (off-line) about catching a "D" using "D" CW procedures on the ham bands once...

---

The Collins did make it back to the World with me and I used it for my first CONUS station, but I had a money & space problem when I went to language school and sold it - - - I still wear a black arm band...  Cry

The Berlin, low band VHF clandestine station that I ran with Larry 'went away' after one caper when we dispatched MP's to the O'club to remove a dog carcass.  After that ,they seemed suspicious about some of the calls we sent, pretending to be dispatch via that radio and we figured that it was only a matter of time before we got busted.  They would have made it stick...

The home made mortar that Schutte, Larry & I made was rapidly disassembled and the parts scattered after Top Ganong got a hold of our butts for firing it at the cook and his girl friend.  I was SO proud when the improvised incindiary charge functioned as designed.  NEVER give flamables to Operators & besides, that tree should not have been there anyway.    Tongue

As far as I know, the clandestine HF station from my room was noticed, but not busted like the one at Devens during the last bit of time before outprocessing.  At Devens, some nug ratted me out for working the lock on the roof access while I was retrieving my antenna. The First Shirt was NOT impressed - go figger. I don't see why not. It was a clean op up to that point.  The C.O. was VERY impressed that I ran a clandestine ham station for a year undetected at an intelligence training base!  He was a good officer.  I hope that he married well and often.


73 a djekui Pane' de FTA-Ray
W7ASA ..._ ._


Ps.  Man what I wouldn't do for some Berliner kurry-wurst or schashlick about now!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 02:49:42 PM by W7ASA » Logged
K7KBN
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Posts: 2788




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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »

The title of the thread is "The Wall" ... I suppose the Berlin Wall is acceptable!

We had a couple CTIs (Communications Technician - Interpreter) on the Kitty Hawk.  It was a common occurrence for the SecGru OInC to come into radio central and request my services.  Turned out I could copy Japanese Morse (wabun) better than either of the "pros".  Grin
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W7ASA
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Posts: 221




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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 07:39:39 AM »

CT's, 058, 05H, 05D and etc.  - Isn't it amazing how many of us from the old business are still roaming the bands?  I bumped into a fellow at a local ham club meeting and he is a former Navy side of the old group during the Cold War years and now he's more of a DX'er,  still twisting the knob to see who is out there. There really IS something about the magic of radio, once bitten - always smitten.


73 de Ray
W7ASA ..._ ._
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AD7XN
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Posts: 36




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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 08:41:12 AM »

Oh ! To be young again, and be able to fall down a set of stairs, and get right up and carry on like you were made of rubber.

I enjoy sending CW with the computer course I have, at 25 CPM @ 12 WPM average, and get in the 90% bracket but receiving is a bear at 15/15 true. Another problem is-I can send as stated above using the text on the screen, but sending a QSO to the computer off the top of my head is much slower.  I can't think as fast as I want to send, unless I am reading the text off the screen. I think it is because I can see the letter's ahead of time on the screen, while originating a QSO, my 75 year old brain can't keep up. I refer you to the first sentence -to be young again !!

Hey-I don't mind reminiscing, who's next ?

Matt
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K8AXW
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2012, 09:38:09 AM »

As I copy CW on my computer keyboard, I get very depressed longing for the sound and feel of a mill........

Ray, one of the "top Sgts" who founded our post back in the very early 50s.....a career solder, combat veteran.... made the statement that throughout his years working with our type, "he never met a more intelligent and dedicated bunch of men in his life.....but there wasn't one soldier in the bunch!"

Al - K8AXW
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K8AC
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« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2012, 01:27:38 PM »

It seems that learning the code and copying at higher speeds has been made more complicated today that it needs to be.  I learned before there were any "methods" and didn't have the advantage of military code training.  The technique used by my friends and I back in the 1950s and early 1960s is still available today, and for free.  We listened to W1AW code practice every night it was on and after drilling at or just above the speed we could copy, we continued to listen as the code speed increased far beyond what we could copy.  When you do that for a while, you begin to recognize words or letter combinations even though you may not be able to copy individual letters at that speed.  After considerable listening at the higher speeds and maybe copying only a very little bit of what was sent, when you go back to the target speed (13 or 20 WPM?) it sounds much slower than it did before and copy is much easier.  You can do the same thing most days by listening to the high speed guys on 40 CW whom I assume are using keyboards to send CW.  While the speeds are up in the 50 wpm plus range, when I listen for an extended period I begin to pick up words and phrases that I couldn't decode when I first started listening.  Such speeds far exceed my capability to write down what was copied of course, so the copy is all in the head.  I've always admired the guys who had military training and could copy 30 wpm on a MANUAL typewriter without error.

73, Floyd - K8AC
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2012, 02:30:30 AM »

Here you ex military radio guys, you have a link that may be interesting for you:
http://www.rsars.org.uk/ELIBRARY/docsoffsks.htm
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N6GND
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2012, 09:14:24 PM »

It seems that learning the code and copying at higher speeds has been made more complicated today that it needs to be  ...we listened to W1AW code practice every night it was on and after drilling at or just above the speed we could copy, we continued to listen as the code speed increased far beyond what we could copy...You can do the same thing most days by listening to the high speed guys on 40 CW whom I assume are using keyboards to send CW. 
73, Floyd - K8AC

I think Floyd is right on. It's just that simple.

Mike
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K8AXW
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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 09:06:42 AM »

Floyd is indeed right and the reason it's more complicated these days is because we are presently living in the NOW era.  Most people want everything NOW and spend more time searching for the EASY way than they would by simply DOING it!  IMHO, understand.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 09:29:15 AM by K8AXW » Logged
M0LEP
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Posts: 206




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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 11:12:14 AM »

There are no easy ways. Trouble is, these days there's not much guidance on the ground either.

Time was, if you wanted to learn to use Morse, you'd have no trouble finding someone at a local club (or wherever) ready to teach you, and a test to aim for that would help you prove you'd learned the skill.

These days, it's much harder to find the teachers, so you go looking on the Net (because that's the way things are now) and find resources like W1AW, LCWO.net, JLMC, G4FON and so on, and you try to learn using them, but they all have one huge draw-back; they're tools, not teachers. They may help tell you when you're doing something right, but they'll never spot what you're doing wrong. Nor, to be honest, will any of the pundits here help much, if all they do is tell folks what to do.

Teaching is a two-way process, and it's probably impossible to teach someone Morse code without teacher and pupil being in the same room, one way or another.
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