Apache Labs Hermes is shipping

[DOUG51]

Anyone gotten their hands on one yet?


Regards,

Doug

[DOUG51]

They are having some issues getting credit card transactions. I think it is due to their QTH...

> Hello Neal,
>
> We are having a problem with declines from the CC issuing bank due to
> the international charge, neither Apache or our bank has any control
> over this unfortunately,

[KE5JPP]

They are having some issues getting credit card transactions. I think it is due to their QTH...

> Hello Neal,
>
> We are having a problem with declines from the CC issuing bank due to
> the international charge, neither Apache or our bank has any control
> over this unfortunately,

The banks know that a lot of scams originate from India.  In addition, getting items shipped to the USA from India is a hit or miss proposition.  It will be interesting to see how many Hermes order get 'lost' and how Apache Labs intends to handle it.  The last Indian Ham Radio company (Wonder Radio) folded up and took everyone's money.  Let's hope the same won't happen here.

Gene


Gene

[DOUG51]

What would make more business sense would be to set up a regional distributor in the US. We don't buy Icoms etc.. direct from Japan/china do we? 

[K0OD]

The banks know that a lot of scams originate from India

From the standpoint of a seller, internet fraud is very low and declining. My firm suffers losses in the neighborhood of 0.1% on web sales. That's far less than our losses on bad checks in face to face transactions. Hit "delete" on the obvious West African junk and use a bit of common sense and the web isn't all that dangerous a place for a seller.

From the standpoint of a prospective buyer, if your own credit card company is refusing to pay the Indian seller, they're probably doing you a favor.  

This deal should be fun to follow.

[K0OD]

"Apache Labs Hermes is shipping"

The thread title seems to be at odds with the posts that follow. Has anyone received one yet? Are charges for the radios showing up on buyers' CC statements yet?

[KE5JPP]

What would make more business sense would be to set up a regional distributor in the US. We don't buy Icoms etc.. direct from Japan/china do we? 

Since the Apache Labs Hermes is not FCC certified and CE complaint, no US or European distributor will work with them at this point.  For the distributor to import the device, it will have to meet those requirements or be subject to seizure by customs.

Apache Labs is dishonestly calling the Hermes and Anan 10/100 a 'kit' even though they are fully assembled in an attempt to circumvent these requirements when they ship them from India.  This is dishonest and should give people a bit of a worry in dealing with this Indian company.

Gene

[DOUG51]

I think they are selling the Hermes and the others as a "kit"  like a TAPR board,  but this seems like a grey area to me. It isn't really a kit if the board is fully assembled. I wonder if they are going to get FCC cert. at some point.

[KE5JPP]

I think they are selling the Hermes and the others as a "kit"  like a TAPR board,  but this seems like a grey area to me. It isn't really a kit if the board is fully assembled. I wonder if they are going to get FCC cert. at some point.

Apache Labs claims they have applied for FCC certification and CE compliance, but the fact remains that they are currently selling products to both the US and European Countries without certification or compliance.  All other Ham Radio manufacturers wait until the certification is done before selling their products.  This shows a lack of respect for the laws outside of their country.  What happens when their products start getting 'lost' in shipping?  Will they just ignore law here and fold up like WonderRadio in India?

Another 'telling' sign is that Apache Labs threatens legal action against anyone who questions these compliance/certification concerns instead of directly addressing them.   If they have so little respect for potential customers, I wonder how paying customers will be treated when they start having problems?

Gene

[NannieYX]

Hello All,

Please find below clarification from our Managing Director, we hope this clarifies our stand WRT
appropriate licensing for the EU & North America,

"I am not sure if the gentleman who posted this has any information about
either Indian regulations (which required us to amend the Product title as
"Kits", this has nothing to do with FCC regulations) or if we have applied for
FCC certification or not, I can assure you he has not contacted us for any
clarification, this is slander and if he continues with this we will take legal
action,

Apache Labs has applied for FCC certification of the ANAN-10 transceiver with
ERTL, New Delhi,

The ANAN-100/D will also be FCC certified by the same agency once the
production unit is ready for testing (the electronics has already been tested
and is compliant),

CE compliance involves the following:

"For each product a detailed technical file is assembled, this would be the
spec sheets for every component, the PCB manufacturing specs and the solder
paste specs, together with the manufacturing details for the case.
This technical file would be held in archive with the EU distributor.
The EU distributor then issues a Certificate of Conformity (C of C) with each
sale. In practice there is usually a statement on the invoice stating a C of C
is available on request.
The C of C is basically a guarantee from the distributor that the product
conforms to current legislation." (Thanks Kevin)

We have the documentation for CE compliance ready and the same shall be
maintained with our soon to be appointed distributor,

Our PCBs, assembly, parts, housing are all RoHS compliant,"

Please note that you may access Tx performance report for the ANAN-10 confirming FCC compliance at:

https://apache-labs.com/al-downloads/1004/10W-PA--Housing-Kit-Files.html

Regards,

M Sarkaria (Head - Legal)
1023 Tower B4 Spaze I-Tech Park Sector - 49
Sohna Road Gurgaon - 122001 Haryana, India
Tel: (0124) 4245173-75
Email: support@apache-labs.com
Website: www.apache-labs.com

[KE5JPP]

NannieYX( ),

Since you speak for Apache Labs, please tell us why Apache Labs is selling and shipping equipment to the USA and Europe before the FCC compliance or CE certification is granted?  'Applied for' does not mean granted.

Gene

[DOUG51]

Hi Nanny - Thanks for posting here. You mentioned the ANAN-10, which as I understand is Hermes + 10 Watt amp which you do have plans to FCC certify, but what about the Hermes? I believe that every RF device (assumed to be referred to as an "Intentional Radiator"), whether it has an enclosure or not needs to be FCC approved to be available for sale in the US.

Doug

[KE5JPP]

Hi Nanny - Thanks for posting here. You mentioned the ANAN-10, which as I understand is Hermes + 10 Watt amp which you do have plans to FCC certify, but what about the Hermes? I believe that every RF device (assumed to be referred to as an "Intentional Radiator"), whether it has an enclosure or not needs to be FCC approved to be available for sale in the US.

Doug

From FCC OET Bulletin 61: http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet61/oet61.pdf

"The FCC Rules prohibit the marketing of radio frequency devices until they have been authorized as required.  These regulations are contained in Part 2, Subpart 1.  For the purposes of the FCC Rules, marketing means:

1. To sell, lease or offer for sale, including for sale or lease.

2. To import, ship or distribute for the purpose of selling, leasing or offering for sale or leasing.

Devices that have not been authorized may be advertised or displayed, provided that the advertisement or display is accompanied by the following conspicuous notice:

'This device has not been approved by the Federal Communication Commission.  This device, is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased until approval of the FCC has been obtained.'
"

I see no notice as required above on the Apache Labs website.  They are also offering for sale these items that have not yet been approved.

Also from FCC OET Bulletin 61:

"RULE VIOLATIONS & FORFEITURES"

"Willful violations of the equipment authorization, importation, and marketing rules can result in fines up to $10,000 per violations for each day of violation(s).  Individuals or organizations may also be subject to a criminal penalty of up to $100,000 ($200,000) and/or a criminal fine totaling twice the gross gain obtained from sales of non-compliant equipment."

"Vendors and importers are encouraged to inspect the equipment they market to see that it carries the necessary FCC Identifier."

This is why Apache Labs will have no US distributors until they get FCC authorization.  

Now that Apache Labs has been notified of these requirements and they continue to offer for sale their equipment, they can not claim that their violation(s) were not "Willful" and they could be subject to fines because of this.

Here is an example of a distributor advertising and complying with the above requirement before FCC authorization is obtained:

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/3990.html  The notice is clearly posted on the website for the TS-990s.

Gene

[K0OD]

    "this is slander and if he continues with this we will take legal action,"

Actually "libel" (or defamation) is the word you want, not slander. 

I'd take that threat as a huge red flag. Sounds like they're more interested in silencing questions than in winning friends for their new company in India.   

[DOUG51]

oops - I think I might be wrong about the Hermes requiring FCC certification.

http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-68322.html

In the above post claims Ham gear does not require FCC certification unless it applies to external Amplifiers. Any opinions on this? I Hope I didn't slander or libel myself.

Doug