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Author Topic: Apache Labs Hermes is shipping  (Read 15011 times)
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2559




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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 02:15:48 PM »

Doug, what is your ham call?
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KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 03:46:09 PM »

oops - I think I might be wrong about the Hermes requiring FCC certification.

http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-68322.html

In the above post claims Ham gear does not require FCC certification unless it applies to external Amplifiers. Any opinions on this? I Hope I didn't slander or libel myself.

Doug

This is incorrect.  If HERMES is sold as a completed board then it requires certification under FCC Part 15 in the USA.  It is illegal to be imported (subject to large fines and seizure) if it is imported without FCC approval.  Read the FCC website, not random 'opinions' on QRZ.com. 

Gene
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KE5JPP
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 03:52:50 PM »

   "this is slander and if he continues with this we will take legal action,"

Actually "libel" (or defamation) is the word you want, not slander.  

I'd take that threat as a huge red flag. Sounds like they're more interested in silencing questions than in winning friends for their new company in India.  

Yep, they don't know the difference between 'slander' and 'libel' obviously.  When one states a fact (and later admitted to  by their 'legal' department) it is neither 'slander' or 'libel'.  

Even more concerning than their disregard for law is that they even have a 'legal' department who responds with threats in Ham Radio forums.  It shows their twisted, goofy mentality and is the reason why so many are hesitant to do business with Indian companies.  Either their 'legal' department is totally incompetent or they are knowingly violating the certification requirements.  Their nasty response make me think the latter is true.  Either way, hopefully the FCC will notify US Customs to seize any equipment that Apache Labs is shipping into the US since they are non-compliant and breaking the law.

Gene
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 03:55:58 PM by KE5JPP » Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2559




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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 09:26:25 PM »

Be careful Gene. This might be a good time to think about moving your assets out of India. Smiley

Still waiting for brand new member Doug51 to post his ham call and explain why he named this thread as he did. I don't want to repeat it because the inaccurate title shows up in Google rather prominently when someone researches AL.
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ZENKI
Member

Posts: 960




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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2012, 03:01:43 AM »

Hi M Sarkaria

Do you have 2 tone  IMD data for the other bands? If you do have this data can you post it some time in the future? I am interested to see how the IMD performance holds up on all other bands.





Hello All,

Please find below clarification from our Managing Director, we hope this clarifies our stand WRT
appropriate licensing for the EU & North America,

"I am not sure if the gentleman who posted this has any information about
either Indian regulations (which required us to amend the Product title as
"Kits", this has nothing to do with FCC regulations) or if we have applied for
FCC certification or not, I can assure you he has not contacted us for any
clarification, this is slander and if he continues with this we will take legal
action,

Apache Labs has applied for FCC certification of the ANAN-10 transceiver with
ERTL, New Delhi,

The ANAN-100/D will also be FCC certified by the same agency once the
production unit is ready for testing (the electronics has already been tested
and is compliant),

CE compliance involves the following:

"For each product a detailed technical file is assembled, this would be the
spec sheets for every component, the PCB manufacturing specs and the solder
paste specs, together with the manufacturing details for the case.
This technical file would be held in archive with the EU distributor.
The EU distributor then issues a Certificate of Conformity (C of C) with each
sale. In practice there is usually a statement on the invoice stating a C of C
is available on request.
The C of C is basically a guarantee from the distributor that the product
conforms to current legislation." (Thanks Kevin)

We have the documentation for CE compliance ready and the same shall be
maintained with our soon to be appointed distributor,

Our PCBs, assembly, parts, housing are all RoHS compliant,"

Please note that you may access Tx performance report for the ANAN-10 confirming FCC compliance at:

https://apache-labs.com/al-downloads/1004/10W-PA--Housing-Kit-Files.html

Regards,

M Sarkaria (Head - Legal)
1023 Tower B4 Spaze I-Tech Park Sector - 49
Sohna Road Gurgaon - 122001 Haryana, India
Tel: (0124) 4245173-75
Email: support@apache-labs.com
Website: www.apache-labs.com

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ZENKI
Member

Posts: 960




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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2012, 03:13:28 AM »

I thought an individual ham in the USA could import  a non type accepted piece of equipment for personal use?

I see Ebay USA is full of export CB radios and illegal  RM Italy amplifiers. These illegal importers are doing a roaring trade with technical deficit disorder hams. What about all the garbage 2 meter HT radios from China?

The FCC is a toothless tiger against  all these small importers and seem to only pursue the celebrity companies for publicity. The same thing is occurring  in Europe. The market is getting flooded with equipment that fails all European EMC laws and all the importers have to do is produce a fraudulent certificate from the Chinese that says it meets standards. We all know that the Chinese manufacturers are making a mockery of our laws yet our authorities will hand out hefty penalties to any European based companies who break these laws. All double standards, the law is truly an ass  in this area.


oops - I think I might be wrong about the Hermes requiring FCC certification.

http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-68322.html

In the above post claims Ham gear does not require FCC certification unless it applies to external Amplifiers. Any opinions on this? I Hope I didn't slander or libel myself.

Doug

This is incorrect.  If HERMES is sold as a completed board then it requires certification under FCC Part 15 in the USA.  It is illegal to be imported (subject to large fines and seizure) if it is imported without FCC approval.  Read the FCC website, not random 'opinions' on QRZ.com. 

Gene

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DOUG51
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2012, 07:10:31 AM »

Looks like things have heated up on the apache labs yahoo group:


>>>> Hope to fire a few packets at my Hermes on Saturday. Wouldn't mid
>>>> firing
>>>> something else at all the naysayers on eHam.
>>>>
>>>> Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV


Gene, I would postpone any travel to India or the UK for now until international relations cool down. Roll Eyes

For myself, I wish Apache Labs all the best and hope they succeed. Although I'm only interested in SWL, I would like to see some high performance direct sampling receivers to compete with the Perseus and RFspace products.  The Hermes at  $900 seems like a good deal with all of the features such as ethernet, attenuators and preamp built in.

Still I haven't found the specific regulations regarding FCC cert of commercially available ham gear except for the part 97 which relates to amplifiers.  As far as the Chinese heandhelds I found this on http://www.wouxun.us/Manuals/QSTReview.pdf :

Is It Legal?
The FCC doesn’t require equipment authorization for any “Amateur
Radio” transmitter to be operated
under Part 97, except those that
incorporate scanning receivers,
which require a grant of certification.
If an Amateur Radio transmitter also
includes frequencies allocated to
other services, and if the device is
intended to operate in those other
services as well as the Amateur
Service, then the transmitter must
be certified for all non-Part 97 radio
services for which it is intended to
operate. The FCC uses the term “intended to operate” as being equivalent to “capable of operation.”


Apparently Woxun has  Part 90 FCC IDs for their handheld - assuming it could be used to TX outside the ham bands?

 Doug
 
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N0YXB
Member

Posts: 322




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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2012, 08:00:20 AM »

Looks like things have heated up on the apache labs yahoo group:


>>>> Hope to fire a few packets at my Hermes on Saturday. Wouldn't mid
>>>> firing
>>>> something else at all the naysayers on eHam.
>>>>
>>>> Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV




Silly comments like that and threatening comments from the so-called head of the Legal department confusing libel and slander certainly don't motivate me to buy this radio.
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KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2012, 08:42:37 AM »

Looks like things have heated up on the apache labs yahoo group:


>>>> Hope to fire a few packets at my Hermes on Saturday. Wouldn't mid
>>>> firing
>>>> something else at all the naysayers on eHam.
>>>>
>>>> Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV


Gene, I would postpone any travel to India or the UK for now until international relations cool down. Roll Eyes

For myself, I wish Apache Labs all the best and hope they succeed. Although I'm only interested in SWL, I would like to see some high performance direct sampling receivers to compete with the Perseus and RFspace products.  The Hermes at  $900 seems like a good deal with all of the features such as ethernet, attenuators and preamp built in.

Still I haven't found the specific regulations regarding FCC cert of commercially available ham gear except for the part 97 which relates to amplifiers.  As far as the Chinese heandhelds I found this on http://www.wouxun.us/Manuals/QSTReview.pdf :

Is It Legal?
The FCC doesn’t require equipment authorization for any “Amateur
Radio” transmitter to be operated
under Part 97, except those that
incorporate scanning receivers,
which require a grant of certification.
If an Amateur Radio transmitter also
includes frequencies allocated to
other services, and if the device is
intended to operate in those other
services as well as the Amateur
Service, then the transmitter must
be certified for all non-Part 97 radio
services for which it is intended to
operate. The FCC uses the term “intended to operate” as being equivalent to “capable of operation.”


Apparently Woxun has  Part 90 FCC IDs for their handheld - assuming it could be used to TX outside the ham bands?

 Doug
 

If FCC Part 15 Certification is not required for Ham Radio receivers, then why does Elecraft, TEN TEC, and Flex Radio, to name a few, all have FCC Part 15 Certifications?

Like I said, consult the FCC website for the requirements.

Gene
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DOUG51
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 10:18:51 AM »

Gene

Yes on Part 15, I think any product for sale with a microprocessor requires it.

However, if the device can xmit outside of the ham bands without modifications, which the HERMES can, isn't that an issue? Is that why ham radio manufacturers have locked transmitting out outside of the ham bands without having to remove a resistor or something trivial?

Doug
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K0OD
Member

Posts: 2559




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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 11:28:09 AM »

Interesting:


"RE: [sdr-radio-com] My ANAN-10 has Shipped !!!     
Posted By:   bob.segrest bob.segrest  Offline  Send Email
  Thu Nov 1, 2012 4:27 pm  | 
 Options View Source
Use Fixed Width Font
Unwrap Lines
 
 
Well, the FedEx man showed up about noon with my Anan-10 kit from Apache Labs.  [It still impresses me that one can move a package door to door half way around the world through international customs in less than 48 hours for $40…]
 
I opened the box and believe me when I tell you this is definitely a kit.  My experience over the past year with surface mount assembly on those SoftRock kits is about to be tested.   There is something daunting about soldering an RF connecter that 2x2x0.5 mm small on a board you just paid $940 for.
 
I suspect the next few days are going to be interesting…
 
Apache Labs did add some additional documentation to their web site today, including a 4 pager named “1006_10W PA kit Instructions”.
 
Bob Segrest,
KD4PWU"
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1982




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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 05:29:14 PM »

There is something daunting about ...........

I suspect the next few days are going to be interesting…

SDR State of the Art - November 2012
Buying a SDR kit from India or dropping a $2k down payment on a (USA) SDR Radio to be delivered in the future but no working demo to inspect at the hamfests.

You gotta have more $$$ than sense for these kind of SDR's....

Stan K9IUQ

« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 05:35:31 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
KX0O
Member

Posts: 49




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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 05:53:26 PM »

It's faith and optimism.  Some have it, some are unhappy and complain a lot.  I choose the first.

Doc
KX0O
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1982




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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM »

It's faith and optimism.  

some are unhappy
Doc
KX0O

Faith= Believing something that can not be proved.

Faith= Believing something you know is not true.

Optimism = Not believing a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Optimism= Believing a SDR company (or Politician) will actually deliver on their promises.  Wink

Happiness = A knob in each hand and no computer in the shack.  Cheesy

Happiness is: Buying a radio off the shelf, NOW, and taking it home. No waiting, no promises, no huge down payment.

Complaining = Putting $2K down payment on a radio that does not exist but is promised in the future from a company that has lied and broken promises many times in it's past.

I agree that one MUST have both Faith and Optimism to buy a SDR in today's market.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 05:11:22 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2559




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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2012, 06:34:28 AM »

    "faith and optimism"

Wasn't that the 2006 motto of Countrywide, AIG and the Greek government?

I can't think of any effective way to research a startup company in India or worthwhile remedy if the $900 product never arrives. Did any of the WonderRadio customers get their money (only $400, as I recall) back from India?

But I'm just a sourpuss former lawyer.

WonderRadio:
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,57633.0.html

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?168932-SDRTec-WonderRadio-pix-and-PDF
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