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Author Topic: W8JI - Is it worth buying a new Ameritron AL-80B?  (Read 19934 times)
W8JI
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 12:49:14 PM »

Eham equipment reviews? Let's compare apples to apples with the Ameritron AL-82 and the Ten Tec Centurion; amps that both have two 3-500Z tubes.  

The AL-82 gets a 4.8/5 in 36 reviews

The Centurion gets a 4.9/5 in 54 reviews

What can we infer from this?


We cannot infer anything at all from reviews....unless we live in Florida and the review is negative. I'm sure if was rated by statistics at a repair center, almost 100% would be defective.  

Look at the AL1200:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/22

It is 4.9 out of 5. It is also built and tested in Mississippi.

The AL1500, built and tested in Mississippi, is 4.8 out of 5:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/21

The AL811 and other tube amps (except 572, which has more tube problems) are 4.5 or higher.

Amplifiers that have high initial component problems, or are sensitive to SWR, have lower ratings.

For other examples, look at antennas. There are a number of antennas that do not work at all like the manufacturer claims, and cannot be made to work as claimed, that get 5 out of 5.

If I come on here and say the assembly lines are different, some fool from FL questions my integrity. I really don't know what to do, because the two people south of me are far more in touch with how things work and what percentage of total production generate some type of service issue.

A person really can't stick to facts here. If they don't say what N4ATS or NN4X want them to say, it means they have no integrity.  
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WX7G
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 01:15:14 PM »

Here is what I mean by inferring something from the reviews of the AL-82 and Centurion.

BTW , the comment above about folks "not" putting comments on eHam about "working" equipment it untrue or all the ratings for MFJ would be zero

If you look at any rating , its not zero , and it may not be 5, it is somewhere in-between. However I do agree with Tom that there are a few that are really not a rating at all , so rule some out

But to that point , even if Tom disagrees I believe that the majority of the ratings ARE in fact from intelligent people. I think most people are....

N4ATS says that eham reviews are valid for comparing equipment.

So, if he is correct we must infer that the Ameritron AL-82 is virtually as good as the Ten Tec Centurion.

And from that we must also infer that since N4ATS says Ameritron is unreliable and has poor QC, Ten Tec also is unreliable and has poor QC.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 01:44:51 PM by WX7G » Logged
NO2A
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2012, 02:00:57 PM »

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is forgetting that 50% of 811`s and 572`s coming from China are defective,as Tom keeps saying. So,they blame that on MFJ,as if that`s their fault. Then they mistune their `811 amp and blame that on MFJ. Amps don`t fail from use,they fail from misuse. Actually MFJ uses parts such as bandswitches that have even more headroom than other amps,as they advertise. With all this info about these tubes,you would think more folks would buy the better amps,such as the AL_80B,or AL-82,AL_1500. Instead I keep reading,"Why did my new AL-811H fail?" To answer your question,yes it is worth buying a new AL-80B. My old AL-80A keeps chugging along... Wink
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N4ATS
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2012, 02:19:50 PM »

Ok , so we are going to start again huh Tom???

"Unless we live in Florida and the review is negative..."

So with another false statement that you claim , "Where" do you see I do or did an MFJ review in the Reviews section of eHam that was negative? The thread heck yes but the reviews?Huh? Are you really that dense that you think the thousands of folks doing the reviews levi off me? I think not...

Hmm , when I entered N4ATS in the review section , I see nothing from N4ATS as I would not buy an MFJ product?

"And from that we must also infer that since N4ATS says Ameritron is unreliable and has poor QC, Ten Tec also is unreliable and has poor QC."

I think you are referring to someone else , I do not own a Ten Tec


"I am sure that he knows however I assure you , most people look at reviews before purchasing something (ham or other). I know I do. Statistics or no-statistics , the reader will flow towards the review with the most positive ratings. Its human nature.

Reviews can drive or crash a product, service or purchase , no doubt...."

I never said compare , I said will "flow" towards ....

Sooooo , I am standing by awaiting your authority again....

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 02:33:32 PM by N4ATS » Logged
N4ATS
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2012, 02:42:47 PM »

Oh gosh , another troublemaker

http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/113537

Hmmm, , Not from Florida
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 02:49:35 PM by N4ATS » Logged
N4ATS
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2012, 02:44:44 PM »

Geeze I wish these folks would stop

http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/112548

Hmmm, , Not from Florida
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 02:48:55 PM by N4ATS » Logged
WB2WIK
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2012, 02:48:22 PM »

Geee , we may want to tell this guy he is full of $#%^! as well

http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/114037

You're mixing Chinese-made coax switches (which MFJ imports and doesn't manufacture) with amplifiers made by Ameritron?

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N4ATS
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2012, 02:50:36 PM »

Were does it say that?
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NN4X
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2012, 04:25:53 PM »

"A person really can't stick to facts here. If they don't say what N4ATS or NN4X want them to
say, it means they have no integrity."

Tom -

I really need to take issue with that comment.   

Quite the contrary, you seem to be on some kind of vendetta against Bill, because, I guess,
you don't like that he takes public issue with the quality of MFJ/Ameritron gear that's come across
his bench.  You continue to infer that Bill has an ulterior motive.  I've provided my take on
why he felt compelled to start that thread here in message # 580069 on the "MJF Quality Lacks" thread. 
He DOES have an ulterior motive!  He want MFJ, and all its subdivisions, to do better!  That doesn't seem
unreasonable, does it?

There really is just no excuse at all for connections not being soldered!  IIRC, it's been
established that Ameritron doesn't test every amp before it ships.  If that is in fact true,
there's just no excuse for that.  None.

You keep citing failure statistics, but continuously downplay the unknown "problem repaired
outside of warranty process", guestimating that it's a small number, and provide no method of
supporting that, even though you admit that it's the only way to track it (i.e. "tracking what happens
out in the field"). Here's a quote from you (message # 626583 on the "MFJ Quality Lacks"
thread: "I understand it is a waste of time to say this to a few people, but I think most people understand the only way to track percentage of problems in QC is to monitor repairs or tech calls on the output. It is
impossible to do it any other way, because the very nature of a complaint is the thing that
has a problem gets all the publicity." 


You keep remarking that Bill sees too small a number of Ameritron products needing repair
for it to be statistically significant, but, provide no explaination for why the samples he's
seeing are in any way not representative of the level of product quality shipped anywhere else.
He's seeing the kinds of problems he is - and that was the reason he started the "MFJ Quality Lacks" thread. 

You also have not answered those who've asked that your relationship to MFJ/Ameritron currently is. 
I did not ask that, and I'm only minimally curious as to the answer.

Again on the "MFJ Quality Lacks" thread (comment # 626315) you say this: "Recently someone bought parts,
including a complete chassis, and tried to build an amplifier. When it didn't work he went to a dealer and
bought a manufactured amplifier. He removed the back panel of the factory unit, installed it on his homemade
unit, and sent his homemade unit (which then looked identical on the outside) back to the dealer for a refund."
The first thing I thought when I read that was "How scummy!"...but to be totally honest, the SECOND thing I
thought was "At least he tested it - that's more than Ameritron does".  Or do they now?

We'll know that MFJ has improved when dealers aren't doing the "Shake Test" of their products.

We'll know that Ameritron, specifically, has improved when people refer to issues like no/bad solder connections
in the past tense.

OK, time to get working on other things.  It's been a pleasure, as always!

73,
Steve
NN4X

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N4ATS
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2012, 04:48:37 PM »

Tom...Still waiting for your answer pointing people to the Eham Review Section where I downplayed MFJ per your quote..


"Unless we live in Florida and the review is negative..."


OR are you going to do what you do best , divert people off onto a new topic that will keep you satisfied?


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W8JI
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2012, 04:53:49 PM »

Bill,

You should just drive over and beat Martin up directly, or drive over here and beat me up in person. Then you will be a happy man. Your mission in life as a savior for all bad things in QC will be complete.

Smiley

At least some people on here, apparently the majority, have some common sense.

What I don't understand is why any time an amplifier thread or question pops up, you and your buddy down there have to turn it into a "MFJ sucks" thread. By now, everyone knows that is your position in life.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 04:56:44 PM by W8JI » Logged
KE5JPP
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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2012, 05:08:45 PM »

If Ameritron's assembly area is anything like the assembly area shown in the MFJ factory tour video, it explains a lot about Ameritron's lack of quality control.

Gene
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N4ATS
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2012, 05:11:05 PM »

Tom....Nah , not a fighting man... Just trying to get you and I on the same playing field however I love your back up tactics...

You are a master of diversion , I give you credit...

Just say sorry , like I did you you and its over... There is no eham review of me speaking against MFJ period, Only the thousands of others...

Nice try...
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WX7G
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2012, 05:14:14 PM »

All of this reminds me of the blind men and the elephant. Each person views MFJ quality from only his vantage point.
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N4ATS
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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2012, 05:20:56 PM »

Yup , I agree , One puts forth that eHam reviews are insignificant and most hams a stupid yet posts the few good reviews , the other looks at the big picture like the "other" eham reviews and most people are smart.....

That's what makes the world a fun place to live

Like this one for example...

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/8288

However its the diversion tactics that bug me.... Now he moves away from himself and points me towards his boss...

Thats why I elect to let Tom win and move on...It's Worthless

Yes you can have the last commet Tom , go for it...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:37:33 PM by N4ATS » Logged
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