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Author Topic: 80 meter horsefence dipole  (Read 2497 times)
K9SRV
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Posts: 121




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« on: October 26, 2012, 04:32:56 PM »

Quick question for the gurus!  Huh
I own an 80 meter HorseFence Dipole and so far have
been very impressed with  the contacts I have made so far
running barefoot and no tuner. It resonates @ 3.660.
My question is.... I recently acquired a Johnson Matchbox
and was wondering if I by=passed and sealed off the so-239,
could I run Ladder Line up to the center, and then feed the LL into the
matchbox in order to work higher bands.

Do you guys think this is possible/wise or a waste of time and money?
Also, if it would work, do you guys have any idea of radiarion patterns/gain
on higher bands like 20, 15, 17, and 12...

Thanks!
Any and all answers will be appreciated!

John Matson
K9SRV
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K3VAT
Member

Posts: 709




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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 07:27:37 PM »

...
I own an 80 meter HorseFence Dipole and so far have
been very impressed with  the contacts I have made so far
running barefoot and no tuner. It resonates @ 3.660.
... John Matson  K9SRV

John,

Just so I understand - your HorseFence dipole is basically a horse fence that is so many feet high by so many feet long of metal wire(s) on wooden posts and happens to resonate at 3.66, is that correct?  And how do you feed it?

And you wish to see if it is feasible to use this same horse fence for a multiband antenna?  Yes, it is feasible, but we need to know a few more facts about the antenna and setup there.  A photo would help a lot. 

Do you have (or can you borrow) an antenna analyzer?  You could sweep the frequencies of interest to see what are some of the characteristics of your horse fence antenna and let us know the results and provide a bit more on the above.

73, Rich, K3VAT
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KC9Q
Member

Posts: 49




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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 07:31:21 PM »

You will basically be building an 80 meter Doublet Antenna.  Here is a site that may answer your pattern question:  http://www.tomochka.com/na7u/doublet/w4rnlbackup.html

73,
Mike
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K9SRV
Member

Posts: 121




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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 11:41:34 PM »

I should have included more info.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/10022
Thats the link, but I dont know if one can click on it.
Check it out under eham reviews, wire antennas, Horsefence Dipole.
I should have mentioned this before....
BTW It is up about 45 feet and am looking for ways to get it up about
10 feet higher.

Thanks for the responses and interest in my question!

John
K9SRV
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 6024




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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 04:07:47 AM »

Yes a dipole fed with ladder line will work. As to the Johnson Matchbox I had one and the tuning range was not wide enough to match such an antenna on all bands. At 100 watts I think you would be better off with any MFJ tuner such as the $99 MFJ-901B.
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W8JI
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Posts: 9296


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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 05:32:44 AM »

Has anyone looked at these horsefence antennas for loss???

They are manufactured from horse fence tape, with has a ribbon woven with several strands of #26 stainless steel wire.  While they should be brordbanded, they also should have pretty high loss (making bandwidth wide).
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K3VAT
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Posts: 709




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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 06:16:43 AM »

I should have included more info. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/10022
John K9SRV

thanks, learning something every day!  73, Rich, K3VAT
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 13225




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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 06:46:18 AM »

Actually the horse fence material I've seen uses galvanized wire rather than
stainless steel.

From what I've seen when it is used for horse fences, I wouldn't have high hopes for
it in the air.  I helped my sister-in-law with her corral and it had broken in many
places due to flexing, while in others it was down to only a few strands (which are
still enough to work as an electric fence.)

There is no reason why you couldn't connect open wire line to it and use it as a
doublet, but in that case there would be no particular value in using the horse
fence material in place of regular copper wire, either.  The only benefit of the
horse fence is that the higher losses (and, to a smaller extent, the width of
the conductor) widen the SWR curve.  With a doublet you'll be using a tuner
anyway, so bandwidth isn't an advantage in that case.
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K9SRV
Member

Posts: 121




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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 11:20:19 PM »

OK, thanks guys! As long as the horsefence antena has high loss to begin
with, I will just forget the ladder line idea and feed it with lmr 400. I was not
aware that the losses in the HorseFence Dipole would be enough to negate the benefits
of substituting LMR 400 for Ladder line, so I will just leave the antenna as it is with LMR 400
feeding it straigt to the radio.

Thanks again!

John
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W8JI
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Posts: 9296


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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2012, 03:06:40 AM »

John,

The advantage of the horse fence antenna is the loss makes SWR low over wider bandwidth.

You might consider a regular wire dipole with ladder line and a tuner.

73 Tom

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WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13225




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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2012, 09:54:20 AM »

If you want to use it on multiple bands, ladder line would be the way to go since
the losses in coax can be high.

The primary advantage of using the horse tape material is to get a wide SWR
bandwidth on 80m (and perhaps 160m), and the losses play a large part in
achieving that bandwidth.  If you are feeding it with ladder line, there is no
advantage to this, and a standard wire dipole will have somewhat lower
loss. 

But the loss with coax feed will probably be higher than the antenna loss on
bands other than 80m where the SWR is high.


Summary:

For multiband use, feed it with ladder line.  The horse fence dipole will work,
but a standard wire may be more reliable and have somewhat lower losses.

For single band use you can feed it with coax.  If wide SWR bandwidth is
more important than efficiency, and mechanical issues aren't a consideration,
then the horsefence dipole can give a reasonably low SWR across the band.
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K9FV
Member

Posts: 479




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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 04:51:11 PM »

I suspect the horse fence dipole for 20 - 80 meters is actually a fan dipole with the metal strands cut to each band..... not sure, but since the website lists low SWR for those bands, I suspect it's more than just a dummy load.

Bet it's a fan dipole.

73 de Ken H>
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W8JI
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Posts: 9296


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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 05:17:43 PM »

I suspect the horse fence dipole for 20 - 80 meters is actually a fan dipole with the metal strands cut to each band..... not sure, but since the website lists low SWR for those bands, I suspect it's more than just a dummy load.

Bet it's a fan dipole.

73 de Ken H>

Do you think so?

I wonder how long it would last with only one thin strand. They fall apart in the wind with all the stands.  Smiley
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WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13225




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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 08:26:20 PM »

Quote from: K9FV
...but since the website lists low SWR for those bands, I suspect it's more than just a dummy load.

Bet it's a fan dipole.


Actually, they sell separate antennas for each of those bands.  They don't claim
that you'll get low SWR on all bands with one antenna.
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K9FV
Member

Posts: 479




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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2012, 09:16:57 AM »

I stand corrected by two of my betters (more knowledgeable by far!!) - I just skimmed over the website and thought they were saying the one antenna covered 80 up.  I thought I had read the horse fence webbing had several strands of wire inside allowing a different strand of wire for each band.

Like my Daddy said, "sit quietly boy, listen and learn" {grinning}

73 de Ken H>
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