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Author Topic: Question about DXCC totals for Honor Roll  (Read 3967 times)
NU1O
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Posts: 4230




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« on: November 05, 2012, 12:57:38 PM »

I believe one needs to be within 9 countries of the total current number to qualify for Honor Roll.  Under our current DXCC list that would mean 331 entities would qualify.

Does that include or exclude deleted countries?  I currently have 314 current entities worked but I have about 6 or 7 deleted confirmed. Do those deleted entities count towards the total required for HR?

I can't recall who brought it up but the other day I thought somebody was including deleted countries in their total.  Some clarification would be very much appreciated.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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W6GX
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Posts: 136




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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 01:09:21 PM »

Hi Chris,

I got the following from ARRL.

i) Mixed: To qualify, you must have a total confirmed entity count that places you among the numerical top ten DXCC entities total on the current DXCC List (example: if there are 340 current DXCC entities, you must have at least 331 entities confirmed). Deleted entities do not count towards the DXCC Honor Roll.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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NI0C
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 02:19:25 PM »

Chris,
Minimum required as of today for HR is 331 (exclusive of deleted entities), as Jonathan said.  Deleted entities are counted in the mixed DXCC listings: http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-MIXED-20121105-USLetter.pdf

Note that the top total on the mixed listing is 398 entities, and that there is one station with 386 entities who is not on the HR.

The honor roll listing is found at: http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-HR-20121105-USLetter.pdf

The thing I find striking about this listing is that roughly one third of the stations on the mixed honor roll are at the very top, with all 340 entities confirmed.

73,
Chuck NI0C
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NU1O
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 03:21:18 PM »

Thanks for the answer, guys.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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KY6R
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 04:18:49 AM »

The "fun" part is where you get within 5 of HR and they delete one (that you have) and add 5 new entities.

Sort of like that movie:

"The Longest Yard" . . . .

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NU4B
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 04:52:07 AM »

It always seems one I have gets deleted. I need some I don't have to get deleted.  Grin
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K3STX
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 07:22:52 AM »

The only one I have needed that DID get deleted was R1MV. So that was nice. But I am still 22 away from Honor Roll.

paul
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W6MWY
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 11:38:50 AM »

They can delete Mt. Athos and it wouldn't hurt my feelings.  Being on the left coast, it is tough.  Tough is OK, but it just seems like a weird entity. 

Bob WU6C
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N2RJ
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 04:35:45 PM »

I wish they'd delete the Scarborough pimples.
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WO7R
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 04:58:33 PM »

Newly minted deletes don't affect anyone's progress towards HR.  If you had it, you lose it, but you also need one fewer.  If you didn't have it, you actually improve by one in the quest.

It's when they add countries, such as when they basically "reissued" Bonaire and Curacao, where everyone lost two and had to rework them and get them back.

Similarly if (contrary to current expectations), they add Kosovo, everyone will be "down one" and have to work it to maintain whatever one's position now is.

The whole Midway/Kure thing, as handled, looks to me like it is going to be a big nothing for many of us.  Everyone will be where ever they were before.  If you worked them, no difference at all for HR or #1 HR.  If you didn't, well, you are no worse off than you were before the couple of weeks they were off the list.  (It's true that you "gained" for a couple of weeks if you hadn't worked one or both, but two weeks or so in the life of a DXer isn't much unless you had an HR app pending right now).
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 06:00:45 PM »

Whenever a gathering of DXers hold's a "sit down", in which the last person standing has the most confirmed DXCC entities, they count deleted DXCC entities.

Thus one should strive to work and confirm every DXCC entity one can before it's deleted, rather than hope that one's unworked entities will be deleted.
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VA3VF
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Posts: 279




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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 09:58:31 AM »

Whenever a gathering of DXers hold's a "sit down", in which the last person standing has the most confirmed DXCC entities, they count deleted DXCC entities.

Thus one should strive to work and confirm every DXCC entity one can before it's deleted, rather than hope that one's unworked entities will be deleted.


That's true, but how is that a 'fair' comparison with DXers that were not even born when some of these entities were on the list?

Personally, I only count current entities, the deleted ones are history.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
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WO7R
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 04:56:17 PM »

Quote
That's true, but how is that a 'fair' comparison with DXers that were not even born when some of these entities were on the list?

It isn't.  But the history we have is what we live with.  We have decided that Mixed, Lifetime DXCC count is the thing.  It's a terrible comparison, yet we do it.

Dave was there so maybe he saw it differently, but this was my second or third Visalia.  When the "sit down" happened, I saw pretty much all the DXers I know and respect sit down fairly quickly.  At that gathering, at least, it always seems to be the oldest guy in the room that ends up standing last.

This is not to disparage the accomplishment.  Regardless of the large number of deletes, working 380 or 390 or whatever it ends up being in one lifetime is quite a thing.  Go back far enough and some of those entities were available for a matter of hours in a few cases.  Big time DXpeditioning was in its infancy.  Whomever it is, deserves applause.

But, yes, the sit down it is tilted heavily towards the very old DXers.  At Visalia, at least, it seems to be as important as your DXing skills as far as the "sit down" goes.

We did a thread on this a while back.  Most DXers in eHam, no matter how accomplished, have a maximum potential (with deleted countries) between 350 and 360.  Even if they are at the top of the Honor Roll.  But at Visalia, with that "pathetic" total, you end up sitting down rather quickly.

I wonder what the "sit down" will look like as the DXers who cut their teeth in the '50s and '60s die off and the maximum realistic total drops into the 350s and 360s or so as the possibility of doing Kuwait/Saudia Arabia Neutral Zone or Java vanishes from reality.  Will we keep doing it, I wonder?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 04:59:35 PM by WO7R » Logged
VA3VF
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Posts: 279




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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 05:19:54 PM »


This is not to disparage the accomplishment.  Regardless of the large number of deletes, working 380 or 390 or whatever it ends up being in one lifetime is quite a thing.  Go back far enough and some of those entities were available for a matter of hours in a few cases.  Big time DXpeditioning was in its infancy.  Whomever it is, deserves applause.


And neither was I (disparaging the accomplishments). I saw a few pictures of this years gathering. It's always always good to see the more experienced DXers still active, and having fun.

But while they can work a new entity today, others cannot work the entities of their youth. Their accomplishments are forever, but comparisons must use the same conditions.

73 de Vince, VA3VF

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AA6YQ
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »

Quote
That's true, but how is that a 'fair' comparison with DXers that were not even born when some of these entities were on the list?

It isn't.  But the history we have is what we live with.  We have decided that Mixed, Lifetime DXCC count is the thing.  It's a terrible comparison, yet we do it.

Dave was there so maybe he saw it differently, but this was my second or third Visalia.  When the "sit down" happened, I saw pretty much all the DXers I know and respect sit down fairly quickly.  At that gathering, at least, it always seems to be the oldest guy in the room that ends up standing last.


The last fellow standing at this year's Visalia "sit down" was Richard K5NA with 373 Mixed entities confirmed, who happened to be sitting at my table. As you can see from this picture, if he was the oldest op in the room, he is very well preserved!

If you consult the DXCC Mixed Standings, you'll see W2OKM at the top of the list with 394 Mixed entities confirmed; according to his QRZ record, he is 93. There are 6 US ops with 391 Mixed entities confirmed; the youngest of them is W7GN, who is 77.

Yes, leading this particular DXing competition requires longevity as well as skill. Is it the only or even the best measure of DXing prowess? Of course not. Winning categories in the annual CQ DX Marathon several years in a row is a far better indicator of DXing ability. However, the "mixed entity sit downs" are a great tradition that I suspect will continue as long as there are DXers. Yes, the winning counts will decline over time; so what?

The removal of DXCC entities solely because they are difficult to work would in my view degrade DXing. Since DXing first began, there have always been DXCC entities that seemed permanently unworkable. Some were unworkable for decades,  but every current DXCC entity eventually became workable. We are in fact in a golden age of DXing, in which every current DXCC entity has been workable within the last 25 years. The tools at our disposal -- software-defined radios with panadaptors, wide-band multi-signal decoders, low-band multi-element receiving arrays, auto-tune solid state amplifiers, internet-conveyed DX spots, HF beacon networks, and propagation prediction applications -- are far superior to what was available to our predecessors. Fund-raising for DXpeditions to difficult entities is also easier to accomplish nowadays, and many QSLs can be obtained electronically via LoTW.

So when I see or hear someone whining about getting some entity deleted because it's too hard to work, I am frankly disgusted. If you find the lack of certain victory unacceptable, you are free abandon DXing and try something else more to your liking. Just don't ruin DXing for the rest of us.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 07:46:08 PM by AA6YQ » Logged
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