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Author Topic: LOTW  (Read 64115 times)
NN3W
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Posts: 147




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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2012, 03:34:48 AM »

This is a serious problem that ARRL and its BOD need to address.  LoTW is not only a log repository, it is also a revenue generator for the League.  Part of the ability of the League to generate revenue is grounded in faith and trust that the system works, works well, and is bulletproof.

This latest little "glitch" really starts to cast doubt as to if the ARRL really knows what its doing vis-a-vis LoTW and has the gravitas to manage such a system.  

I'll note that given what happened in late October/early November 2011, the League should have been prepared for any contingency that would come up.  

It wasn't.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 03:37:07 AM by NN3W » Logged
SV1XV
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Posts: 94


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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2012, 03:49:33 AM »

This latest little "glitch"...  
We don't even know if it is a little glitch or a major catastroph and we can hope for the best outcome while fearing for the worst. I would expect some news on the ARRL web site, but there is nothing there. I hope they shall post an update in the morning (EST).

« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 03:53:08 AM by SV1XV » Logged
W4VKU
Member

Posts: 348




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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2012, 05:33:54 AM »

If this corruption has resulted in data loss, it is going to result in loss of faith in this system. How do we chase down all
those QSL's, now that they don't show up?

May be the business model will need to be changed. Perhaps something to the order of, download the QSL credits and
pay when you cashin for a certificate. That way, one can download it offline and then still deal with such
data loss by showing the proof of those QSL's( from our own backups). The file could be signed digitally prior to
downloading, to avoid any sort of tamper.
 
krish
w4vku
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NK7Z
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Posts: 823


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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2012, 05:39:17 AM »


"Invalid Procedure Call or Argument" is without question a defect in AC Log.

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave (AA6YQ),
That error was from the LOTW site, not ACLog.  It showed up when using a browser only...  We are were all getting that error from the LOTW site prior to the current error message displayed at the LOTW site...  I am not sure I see how that is ACLog, as opposed to LOTW.  Could you expand?

EDIT:
Note, the error message LOTW had was:
Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 – CONNECT: (cannot connect to server socket): General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 – CONNECT: (cannot connect to server socket)

So you may be right it may be an error in ACLog or how ACLog reacts to a failure to log in...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:25:33 AM by NK7Z » Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
AB8MA
Member

Posts: 754




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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 07:29:08 AM »

Hopefully the LoTW issue isn't as bad as some are saying.
http://dx-world.net/2012/lotw-lost-data/

If this information is correct, no data was lost.

http://www.arrl.org/news/logbook-of-the-world-experiencing-maintenance-issues

11/07/2012

Quote
ARRL Information Technology Manager Michael Keane, K1MK, is reporting that the Logbook of The World (LoTW) system is currently down for maintenance. “With the system temporarily down, radio amateurs are not able to access LoTW or upload their logs,” Keane explained. “No data has been lost, and everyone’s records are intact.
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N7SMI
Member

Posts: 344




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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 07:33:34 AM »

I've designed and maintained critical, high-traffic online databases (10s of thousands of transactions per minute and billions of records). LoTW is stupid simple in comparison, size, and processing. In addition to the continual delays and down-time, the fact that they've now been down for 3 days strongly confirms that they have no idea what they're doing. They either need to pull the plug or get a DB person that is competent and invest in some basic, reliable infrastructure.

Even if data is lost, it will be easy to re-upload logs - though I highly doubt they'll be able to handle everyone uploading the last several months of contacts once they get back online.

What a mess!
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AF3Y
Member

Posts: 3794




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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2012, 10:58:00 AM »

I've designed and maintained critical, high-traffic online databases (10s of thousands of transactions per minute and billions of records). LoTW is stupid simple in comparison, size, and processing. In addition to the continual delays and down-time, the fact that they've now been down for 3 days strongly confirms that they have no idea what they're doing. They either need to pull the plug or get a DB person that is competent and invest in some basic, reliable infrastructure.


Perhaps a couple more Commodore 64s and a few more tape decks.  Roll Eyes

Their system really does stink.

73, Gene AF3Y
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W5DQ
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Posts: 1209


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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2012, 11:16:14 AM »

I've designed and maintained critical, high-traffic online databases (10s of thousands of transactions per minute and billions of records). LoTW is stupid simple in comparison, size, and processing. In addition to the continual delays and down-time, the fact that they've now been down for 3 days strongly confirms that they have no idea what they're doing. They either need to pull the plug or get a DB person that is competent and invest in some basic, reliable infrastructure.

Even if data is lost, it will be easy to re-upload logs - though I highly doubt they'll be able to handle everyone uploading the last several months of contacts once they get back online.

What a mess!

Send them your resume. Perhaps they can make you an offer you can't refuse.  Wink

I agree. Something has to be done about the current status of development and maintenance. I thought we had problems in getting real time avionics to work right but this borders on ridiculous!!
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
K3VAT
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Posts: 731




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« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2012, 02:53:22 AM »

As of almost 1100Z on Thursday, LoTW still down.
ARRL says "no data loss".  Just need some patience while they do their thing.
73, Rich, K3VAT
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W2IRT
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Posts: 2706


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« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2012, 04:48:41 AM »

In the meantime, if anybody needs to submit a paper DXCC application I'll be glad to check your cards (no limit) and do it the old-fashioned way. Cheesy
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www.facebook.com/W2IRT
Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
NK7Z
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Posts: 823


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« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2012, 05:19:14 AM »

As of almost 1100Z on Thursday, LoTW still down.
ARRL says "no data loss".  Just need some patience while they do their thing.
73, Rich, K3VAT

Hi Rich,
I agree...  Here is how I suspect this will shake out:

1.  ARRL will fix the problem.
2.  ARRL will address the reasons it happened.
3.  Things will be better than prior to this issue, after it is back up.

I suspect this is a big project for the ARRL, as their first steps into the digital age, things will not be perfect, thus this sort of thing will happen.  I am sure the IT staff is feeling the heat right now, if not from the ARRL itself, then from themselves...  Having worked in IT for a number of decades, most IT people are really dedicated, and want things to work.  So far the only real issue I see here is the lack of clarity for the current status of LOTW, when the systems breaks. 

How often a system breaks is almost a direct correlation to how much money one spends on them.  The ARRL is not Target, or Walmart, so they are not going to have that level of funding to spend to make LoTW five nines up time, so expecting it to behave like it has five nines is not reasonable.  I would be ecstatic with three nines, that's eight hours and forty six minutes of downtime a year...  I would expect that somewhere close to 10 to 20 hours a year of downtime is acceptable, at least to me.   

LoTW will come back up, and it will probably be better, or if not now, then this incident will be used to vector more funds/work towards making it better.  We all see that there are clear problems with the current setup, and I am sure the ARRL also see this.  Being a responsible organization, I expect they will fix it as soon as they can and then use this opportunity to make it better.  I am willing to wait until is is fixed, and I am still glad it is here, and I will continue to use it after it is fixed. 

The one thing I would recommend to the ARRL is to get a light on this and put some transparency to it, start posting daily updates so the users don't wonder what is happening.  Start posting them in the forums both here and at QRZ, and on their web site... 

For those folks that say this should never have happened, it did, and it will again, and hopefully it will get better each time it happens...  This is a big project in a bright spotlight...

73's
Dave
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2692




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« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2012, 06:15:58 AM »

This is a serious problem that ARRL and its BOD need to address.  LoTW is not only a log repository, it is also a revenue generator for the League.  Part of the ability of the League to generate revenue is grounded in faith and trust that the system works, works well, and is bulletproof.

This latest little "glitch" really starts to cast doubt as to if the ARRL really knows what its doing vis-a-vis LoTW and has the gravitas to manage such a system.  

I'll note that given what happened in late October/early November 2011, the League should have been prepared for any contingency that would come up.  

It wasn't.

I once spent about an hour reading everything on the LoTW site and the ARRL claims they do not charge the full cost for LoTW expenses.  It's not a profit center according to them. That maybe part of the problem.

The ARRL prides itself on technology and all the advances which have occurred in radio over the past century.  "From Spark to Space" was the motto on the QSL cards they gave me when I once operated W1AW.  I believe that motto may be or was once the motto for the League. The problems with LoTW are a great embarrassment to the ARRL

We have database experts with very impressive qualification in this forum who have claimed the LoTW database is not overly complex and it should be a fairly easy to create a system which is much more robust.  I can't personally make that claim but the system needs to be fixed so it doesn't go down after every contest.  If the present help isn't capable of fixing the problem they need to be replaced.  Also, if they are selling their product for less than cost they should reprice so there are enough resources to hire high quality help and maintain the system properly.  If my recent bill had been $200 instead of $150 I would still use LoTW as the benefits are too great.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2692




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« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2012, 06:36:22 AM »


"Invalid Procedure Call or Argument" is without question a defect in AC Log.

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ

Hi Dave (AA6YQ),
That error was from the LOTW site, not ACLog.  It showed up when using a browser only...  We are were all getting that error from the LOTW site prior to the current error message displayed at the LOTW site...  I am not sure I see how that is ACLog, as opposed to LOTW.  Could you expand?

EDIT:
Note, the error message LOTW had was:
Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 – CONNECT: (cannot connect to server socket): General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 – CONNECT: (cannot connect to server socket)

So you may be right it may be an error in ACLog or how ACLog reacts to a failure to log in...

In fairness to Dave I have been receiving the "Invalid Procedure Call or Argument" error for months. It did not appear recently when LoTW went down after SS. I've received the error when LoTW was working fine for everybody else.

Dave has written a wonderful piece of software but at the time it was more than I needed.  I just wanted something very simple. I have no doubt Dave knows what he's talking about.

73,

Chris/NU1O

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AB8MA
Member

Posts: 754




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« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2012, 06:45:00 AM »

Here is an interesting e-mail: (Highlights are mine)

Quote
A few members have asked about Logbook of the World (LoTW) being
inoperable.  Here are the facts about this situation:

The department manager over Information Technology at HQ has confirmed
that no data were lost.  The problem is that storage capacity has been
filled
. Apparently, the fact that storage for LoTW was rapidly being
filled due to the rapid expansion of data input into it was not caught
in time to allow capacity to be expanded before the program shut down.
Staff advised the directors that capacity is being added and that
appropriate alarms are being built into the program to prevent this
situation from happening in the future.  LoTW should resume full
operations essentially momentarily.

I apologize for the inconvenience this situation has caused.

73,

Jim

Jim Weaver, K8JE
Director, Great Lakes Division
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4O4A
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2012, 06:50:44 AM »

Quote
Logbook of the World should be returned to service by 9AM EST 09 Nov 2012 (2012-11-09 1400Z)
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