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Author Topic: PT0S active  (Read 43868 times)
NI0C
Member

Posts: 2408




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« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2012, 03:08:18 PM »

NU1O wrote:
Quote
Now, if I could lay buried radials all over his yard and combine them with the few in my yard I'd have a decent radial system.

Since I would only be going down a few inches the odds are very slim that I would break his sprinkler system.  I could also string up an 80 meter dipole using one of his trees and hope the new owners don't notice or care.

Anybody have any thoughts? This current neighbor never said boo to me in all the years he has lived here so I'm probably due for a bad neighbor. It's either lay the ground system in the spring when he moves or forget about a decent radial system. What do I do?

73,


I've been tempted to trespass and install clandestine radials, but have never actually done so.  I don't recommend it, for a lot of reasons.

See what you can do with a radial system on just your own property.  I've never had the luxury of full length radials 360 degrees around the base of my verticals. 

73,
Chuck  NI0C
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VE3YF
Member

Posts: 195


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« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2012, 03:17:14 PM »

You guys working PY0S on 30, 40, 80 and especially 160 meters deserve much credit.  It's still not prime time for Low Band DXing and the QRN levels are still high.

And, aside from 40 meters the great majority of QSOs are with wire antennas.

ON4UN has encouraged me to load up my tower but even if I do that there is not a whole lot of space to lay ground radials due to a swimming pool and a small yard to start with. 

I just asked my neighbor to trim some branches which are in my yard and hitting my beam when the tower is cranked down but the work will have to be done in his yard and he didn't even want to go and look at the trees.  He just said it was OK to do.  I've found out he is very likely putting the house up for sale next spring and retiring to Florida.  Now, if I could lay buried radials all over his yard and combine them with the few in my yard I'd have a decent radial system.

Since I would only be going down a few inches the odds are very slim that I would break his sprinkler system.  I could also string up an 80 meter dipole using one of his trees and hope the new owners don't notice or care.

Anybody have any thoughts? This current neighbor never said boo to me in all the years he has lived here so I'm probably due for a bad neighbor. It's either lay the ground system in the spring when he moves or forget about a decent radial system. What do I do?

73,

Chris/NU1O

Chris:

What you could do is lay as many radials in a 360 degree pattern within the confines of your property. Some maybe longer than the others due to the contraints of your yard, but that wont matter. I have about 50 radials under my vertical and some are as short as 4 feet and others are as long as 30 feet. Your best is to lay them down now, and when the grass starts growing again in the spring it will be all covered up. I just laid them on the grass rather tight and used lawn staples to keep them flat etc, and by late spring cutting the grass was not a problem. I have been told years ago not to worry about resonant length as when on the ground they get detuned, just lay as many as you can. Same goes if you use your neighbors yard, by summer no one will know they are even there...

73 De Mike
VE3YF
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W5RDW
Member

Posts: 253




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« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2012, 03:36:18 PM »

I have a Hy Tower located 5 ft. from my lot line/8 ft. wooden fence. For those radials that go toward the fence, I just turned them at an angle to run parallel to the fence. It may looked funny, but I got at least 60 radials down. I cut the grass short before I laid the radials down, used staples to hold the wire flat to the ground and within a month, the grass was staring to grow over the radials. Now, no one would know how much copper I have out there!
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Roger White W5RDW
Murphy, TX
Ham since 1961
W2IRT
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Posts: 2706


WWW

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« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2012, 03:44:32 PM »

Isn't that like 1.5 Giga-Watts, albeit for a short time?  You better not let your wife see this month's electric bill.   Cheesy

More like 1.21 jiggawatts.
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www.facebook.com/W2IRT
Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
N5MOA
Member

Posts: 1053




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« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2012, 04:10:22 PM »

Sadly, the on line database is up And though I "worked" PT0S on 160 @ 1:33 and 80 @ 4:52 on 11/12, my call is not in their database. They have 533 QSOs listed to date.

http://pt0s.com/search.html

I took the liberty of checking everyone's call in this list and the only two calls that came up as present were W4VKU and K5JZ, both on 160.

There may be an unexpected number of pirates...

Rats... Back to zero...


It just isn't posted there yet.

"Last QSOs in the Database: 0927 UTC 11 November 2012"

Both your qsos, and my 12m ssb @17:17 11/11 and 40m cw @ 0900 11/12, are after the last qso in the log.

Surprisingly small pileup this morning on 40m.
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N2NL
Member

Posts: 338




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« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2012, 04:55:42 PM »


I just asked my neighbor to trim some branches which are in my yard and hitting my beam when the tower is cranked down but the work will have to be done in his yard and he didn't even want to go and look at the trees.  He just said it was OK to do.  I've found out he is very likely putting the house up for sale next spring and retiring to Florida.  Now, if I could lay buried radials all over his yard and combine them with the few in my yard I'd have a decent radial system.

Since I would only be going down a few inches the odds are very slim that I would break his sprinkler system.  I could also string up an 80 meter dipole using one of his trees and hope the new owners don't notice or care.

Anybody have any thoughts? This current neighbor never said boo to me in all the years he has lived here so I'm probably due for a bad neighbor. It's either lay the ground system in the spring when he moves or forget about a decent radial system. What do I do?

73,

Chris/NU1O

If he is willing, why not (1) cut his grass for him short (2) lay radials down directly onto the ground then (3) staple the radials down with bent pieces of wire.  Offer to cut his grass for a couple more months - and cut it long the first couple times.  Within a month or so, if the grass is growing, the radials will be completely invisible and out of harms way from the lawn mower.

Run more radials in directions where you can to compensate for directions where you can't.  Likewise, you can use chicken wire - lay it down when you need it, roll it back up when done.

73, Dave
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KD6KVL
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2012, 06:21:37 PM »

W2IRT wrote:
"I have one very doubtful 12m call -- they got the IRT but I'm think they busted the W2--a frequency cop was chasing off a lid when he came back to me and I missed their reply"

Pretty sure thats the qso I heard from you, sounded clean to me!

I took about an hour following his last qso to make mine on 17 last night.
I will agree that many aren't looking for the last guy worked and trying to find the pattern.

For instance, today on 15 cw, so many partials called and everyone calls, they're not listening and finding the last guy worked, or looking for the partial in the pileup.

I feel proud it took me about an hour of finding and listening to get in.  I've heard some locals here who have spent all day just sending the call over and over.
Its an up hill battle to just sit and call, camping on a frequency from the spotter.
How many worked the V85 thast they thought was the PT0? People don't listen, and many have no idea beyond turning on the Alpha and K3 and blasting away everytime the DX speaks.
There is a skill involved that will get qso's in the log vs. just power and calling at some random spot in the pile up.  I think we used to call them QRP'ers, lack of REAL skill.

Congrats to anyone who gets in the log, this is not an easy one, but skill and listening does pay off.

Frank KG6N
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WG5G
Member

Posts: 150




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« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2012, 06:43:48 PM »

To KA1J, had me worried, Im in the log as WG5G/QRP, that was my insurance qso that I made 15 minutes after the initial WG5G qso guess they eliminated the dupe, it was so easy I couldnt resist working them again, glad I did, may not get another chance the way its going, 73, Dan WG5G.
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W2IRT
Member

Posts: 2706


WWW

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« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2012, 08:25:57 PM »

Quote
W2IRT wrote:
"I have one very doubtful 12m call -- they got the IRT but I'm think they busted the W2--a frequency cop was chasing off a lid when he came back to me and I missed their reply"

Pretty sure thats the qso I heard from you, sounded clean to me!
I hope so. I have 3 in the log: 12m SSB (this one), 17CW and 80 CW, both of which I'm 100% sure of--assuming I worked the real deal and not ol' Slim.

I'd give anything, though, for just one single 160m QSO from these guys. I couldn't care less about any other bands for them, including the ones I don't/didn't have. For me it's all about getting 160 in the log. 80 was nice, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat for Topband.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
N1UK
Member

Posts: 1492




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« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2012, 08:42:17 PM »

Quote
I'd give anything, though, for just one single 160m QSO from these guys.

I got one on 160m tonight.  Good old sloper.

Also I couldn't believe how loud they were on 80m and how weak they were on 20m this evening.


Mark N1UK
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W4VKU
Member

Posts: 348




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« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2012, 08:54:58 PM »

Quote
I'd give anything, though, for just one single 160m QSO from these guys.

I got one on 160m tonight.  Good old sloper.

Also I couldn't believe how loud they were on 80m and how weak they were on 20m this evening.

>> They were loud on 80m ssb. Missed it due to stepping away for family time. May be another day.
    They were also copyable on 160m without any hearing aids (i mean Rx antenna). Now if only those
    Lids and tuner uppers behaved, listening would not be catastrophic with high AF gain. Scared to
    turn off AGC.


Mark N1UK
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2692




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« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2012, 10:14:31 PM »

Guys, thanks for the ideas about the ground radials in my neighbor's yard.  He's really doing me a big favor by allowing me to cut down two mostly dead trees that interfere with my beam when it's at a certain direction and the tower cranked down half way. The tree that stops me from doing a 360 degree turn when the tower is cranked all the way down is in good shape and the tree service was originally just going to prune a few branches, but given time those branches will be back in my yard but with a new neighbor who could be good or not so good. The tree service now suggests cutting down the whole tree and since it's not a very big one the additional cost would only be about $150. IMO, that's an inexpensive price to cure the problem permanently. I will ask my neighbor for permission before I chop down a healthy tree.

He has been a real good neighbor in that I never heard from him for years so asking for permission to lay down chicken wire over most of his yard is out of the question since I doubt he would ever go for it. As the old saying does. "Pigs get fat; hogs get slaughtered!"  If I do the covert operation it will be if he moves before selling his home and while the home is empty.  In that case I'd make some 3 inch slits and lay down single strands of copper wire. A whole yard of chicken wire is just too much. Eventually the new neighbors will find it and trace it to me.

I appreciate the posts by W5RDW, NI0C, VE3YF, and N2NL.  I should first try to lay down as much copper in my own yard as possible albeit at weird angles and parallel to my fences when I run out of space. That may solve the desire to infringe on a neighbor's yard w/o permission.

I can already see 20 meters closing not too long after sunset and if I don't put up decent antennas for 30 and 40 I may as well shut off the rig after sunset when the SFI starts heading down in earnest.

When the tree service representative was here I asked him if they could raise my wires as high as safely possible and he said yes, so an 80 meter loop at 55 feet maybe my last choice if nothing else works satisfactorily.

One last thing, my Bencher Skyhawk will load up on 30 and 40 meters and I can run legal limit using the Palstar AT5K but signal levels drop about 2 to 3 S-units.  Sometimes the noise drops more than the signal so the Signal to Noise Ratio improves but I'm afraid my transmit signal drops considerably with the Skyhawk.  I guess I could always transmit with the inverted V and receive with the Skyhawk.

73,

Chris/NU1O

« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 10:46:41 PM by NU1O » Logged
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2692




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« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2012, 12:07:28 AM »

Chris:

What you could do is lay as many radials in a 360 degree pattern within the confines of your property. Some maybe longer than the others due to the contraints of your yard, but that wont matter. I have about 50 radials under my vertical and some are as short as 4 feet and others are as long as 30 feet. Your best is to lay them down now, and when the grass starts growing again in the spring it will be all covered up. I just laid them on the grass rather tight and used lawn staples to keep them flat etc, and by late spring cutting the grass was not a problem. I have been told years ago not to worry about resonant length as when on the ground they get detuned, just lay as many as you can. Same goes if you use your neighbors yard, by summer no one will know they are even there...

73 De Mike
VE3YF

Hi Mike,

So you did not take the quarter wave frequency (I think it is 234/F) and cut the radials to that length.  You just cut a radial to the length that would fit in the given length?

Since I can't put the Butternut Vertical in the center of the backyard since the swimming pool is there it will be off to one side or another.   I do have front sections on the right and left side of the house which are separated by a concrete driveway.  I never given thought to laying ground radials in the front sections and tying them to the backyard system since I was under the impression they had to be in a 360 degree circle. The ground radials in the front yard would be blocked by the house since the Butternut is only about 28 feet tall and the house is about the same height and would be blocking the vertical signals.

Does it make sense to lay those ground radials in the front yard sections?  Also, in the back yard is the general idea to simply put down as much copper as possible?  For example in the back of the swimming pool I have an area of yard about 75 feet long by 20 feet.  Would it help to lay a 75 foot wire every foot or so and ultimately connect those 20 wires to the Vertical?  Finally does the wire gauge matter and does it matter if the wire is insulated or bare?

Most literature assumes one has a 360 degree circle to lay down radials evenly spaced and of the same length, yet that is no doubt the exception for amateurs. One needs a good deal of acreage to construct the ground radial system modeled after the AM broadcasters.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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VE3YF
Member

Posts: 195


WWW

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« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2012, 01:58:52 AM »

Chris:

What you could do is lay as many radials in a 360 degree pattern within the confines of your property. Some maybe longer than the others due to the contraints of your yard, but that wont matter. I have about 50 radials under my vertical and some are as short as 4 feet and others are as long as 30 feet. Your best is to lay them down now, and when the grass starts growing again in the spring it will be all covered up. I just laid them on the grass rather tight and used lawn staples to keep them flat etc, and by late spring cutting the grass was not a problem. I have been told years ago not to worry about resonant length as when on the ground they get detuned, just lay as many as you can. Same goes if you use your neighbors yard, by summer no one will know they are even there...

73 De Mike
VE3YF

Hi Mike,

So you did not take the quarter wave frequency (I think it is 234/F) and cut the radials to that length.  You just cut a radial to the length that would fit in the given length?

Since I can't put the Butternut Vertical in the center of the backyard since the swimming pool is there it will be off to one side or another.   I do have front sections on the right and left side of the house which are separated by a concrete driveway.  I never given thought to laying ground radials in the front sections and tying them to the backyard system since I was under the impression they had to be in a 360 degree circle. The ground radials in the front yard would be blocked by the house since the Butternut is only about 28 feet tall and the house is about the same height and would be blocking the vertical signals.

Does it make sense to lay those ground radials in the front yard sections?  Also, in the back yard is the general idea to simply put down as much copper as possible?  For example in the back of the swimming pool I have an area of yard about 75 feet long by 20 feet.  Would it help to lay a 75 foot wire every foot or so and ultimately connect those 20 wires to the Vertical?  Finally does the wire gauge matter and does it matter if the wire is insulated or bare?

Most literature assumes one has a 360 degree circle to lay down radials evenly spaced and of the same length, yet that is no doubt the exception for amateurs. One needs a good deal of acreage to construct the ground radial system modeled after the AM broadcasters.

73,

Chris/NU1O

Hi Chris:

Correct, I did not use the formula and just just cut the wire to the length that my area would allow. I would think that it doesn't matter if the radials go into the front yard, just as long as you put down as much wire as you can. Each situation will be different and performance will also vary. You will never know how good the system works until you are done. I have been thinking about adding even more, I dont think it should be a problem in my case as I use insulated wire and even if the radials are an inch apart it should be of some benefit. I would think also if your soil is moist rather than dry it would even be better.

Now if I could do something with my 160m sloper, it works great into Asia and OC etc, but crap into Europe and Africa. Maybe it is time to put up another sloper for those area's, problem being my lot size isn't the greatest.

Oh one last thing Chris, if you can lay the wire down now, I would go for it, this way you have the radials in place for the winter and come spring once the grass starts growing you will be all set, let nature take care of things for you over winter...

73 De Mike
VE3YF
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VE3YF
Member

Posts: 195


WWW

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« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2012, 02:01:07 AM »

Quote
W2IRT wrote:
"I have one very doubtful 12m call -- they got the IRT but I'm think they busted the W2--a frequency cop was chasing off a lid when he came back to me and I missed their reply"

Pretty sure thats the qso I heard from you, sounded clean to me!
I hope so. I have 3 in the log: 12m SSB (this one), 17CW and 80 CW, both of which I'm 100% sure of--assuming I worked the real deal and not ol' Slim.

I'd give anything, though, for just one single 160m QSO from these guys. I couldn't care less about any other bands for them, including the ones I don't/didn't have. For me it's all about getting 160 in the log. 80 was nice, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat for Topband.

Peter:

I think you have nothing to worry about about, I was listening and I could have sworn they got your call correct. Plus with a week or so left you will have plenty of time in case it was a busted call. Good Luck...

73 De Mike
VE3YF
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