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Author Topic: Antenna needed to be heard on Heard  (Read 2488 times)
W2IRT
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 07:37:31 PM »

And show me one single expedition that favours EU,  they all want the $'s that comes with working NA and the west coast especially.

TO4E, the recent FR/G expedition, most of the 6O operations.

Add to that Elmo and the gang to 3C/3C0.
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EI2GLB
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2012, 01:34:39 AM »

Funny most time I heard 3C they were working NA

I didn't work TO or FR/G so can't comment,

And I heard the 6O call NA loads,

No matter what you say the norm is that most expeditions will only work EU when there working everywhere very seldom will you see them call EU only,

Whereas NA JA SA only is common place.

Trevor
EI2GLB
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K3VAT
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2012, 02:33:43 AM »

Funny most time I heard 3C they were working NA

I didn't work TO or FR/G so can't comment,

And I heard the 6O call NA loads,

No matter what you say the norm is that most expeditions will only work EU when there working everywhere very seldom will you see them call EU only,

Whereas NA JA SA only is common place.

Trevor
EI2GLB

What was the largest DXPedition (and one of the most sought after) of 2012?  It was HK0NA Malpedo with nearly 200K total contacts (all bands/all modes).

Despite being much further away, more CW QSOs were with EU (41,020) than with NA (37,019) !!

EU had 3 times the number of QSOs for all modes than Asia, Oceania, AF, and SA Combined and only slightly less than NA (which often includes islands of the Caribbean, XE, etc.).

PT0S is another recent example. Very high up on the Most Wanted.  Their total QSO distribution?? NA=36.9% and EU=46.7%.


No matter what you say the norm is that most expeditions will only work EU when there working everywhere very seldom will you see them call EU only, Whereas NA JA SA only is common place.
Trevor EI2GLB

The above an EU perspective only, the statistics of major DXPeditions across the years when analyzed  don't bear this out.  Yes, there may be a small percentage of DXPeditions where QSOs to NA are substantially higher than any other continent, but this is not the norm.  Interested OMs can visit ClubLog and do their own research - most of the major DXPeditions' logs are there.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 02:49:16 AM by K3VAT » Logged
EI2GLB
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2012, 04:29:47 AM »

Just because they have more Q's with EU doesn't mean the spent more time listening for EU.

EU is a large place I have no way to tell but would guess there is nearly twice the number of active DXers in EU over NA.

Anyway no need to derail the thread I just wanted to defend EU.

Trevor
EI2GLB



 
Funny most time I heard 3C they were working NA

I didn't work TO or FR/G so can't comment,

And I heard the 6O call NA loads,

No matter what you say the norm is that most expeditions will only work EU when there working everywhere very seldom will you see them call EU only,

Whereas NA JA SA only is common place.

Trevor
EI2GLB

What was the largest DXPedition (and one of the most sought after) of 2012?  It was HK0NA Malpedo with nearly 200K total contacts (all bands/all modes).

Despite being much further away, more CW QSOs were with EU (41,020) than with NA (37,019) !!

EU had 3 times the number of QSOs for all modes than Asia, Oceania, AF, and SA Combined and only slightly less than NA (which often includes islands of the Caribbean, XE, etc.).

PT0S is another recent example. Very high up on the Most Wanted.  Their total QSO distribution?? NA=36.9% and EU=46.7%.


No matter what you say the norm is that most expeditions will only work EU when there working everywhere very seldom will you see them call EU only, Whereas NA JA SA only is common place.
Trevor EI2GLB

The above an EU perspective only, the statistics of major DXPeditions across the years when analyzed  don't bear this out.  Yes, there may be a small percentage of DXPeditions where QSOs to NA are substantially higher than any other continent, but this is not the norm.  Interested OMs can visit ClubLog and do their own research - most of the major DXPeditions' logs are there.


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N2RJ
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2012, 03:19:49 PM »

While I agree that there is lots of bad operators in EU lately there has a lot of QRM coming out of NA
, look at the recent PT0S mess on 40m

And show me one single expedition that favours EU,  they all want the $'s that comes with working NA and the west coast especially.

Trevor
EI2GLB

.
The downside is that openings to Europe and NA will occur at roughly the same times, so we'll have to fight off the inevitable hordes of ill-mannered twerps and get our knickers in a knot over ops who will equally-inevitably favour Europe over NA (for reasons I can never fully fathom).



The 40m situation was caused by nets who dropped anchor, refused to QSY and cried like spoilt brats when they had to share the freq. In case you didn't know, 3905 CCN owns 7178 every night. To be fair, I don't think they should be run off by qrm, but it's HF and sometimes the frequency will be in use and you just have to deal with it.

I don't judge QRMers though. I just whack em in the pile ups. Smiley
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 03:22:41 PM by N2RJ » Logged
W2IRT
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 06:03:34 PM »

I should also add that most of the QRM is not from northern Europe (in fact I would wager little if any). The further south one goes in this hemisphere the more Baked Brain Syndrome one encounters, and that's true on both sides of the Atlantic, I believe.
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4O4A
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2012, 05:54:15 AM »

I should also add that most of the QRM is not from northern Europe (in fact I would wager little if any). The further south one goes in this hemisphere the more Baked Brain Syndrome one encounters, and that's true on both sides of the Atlantic, I believe.

Interesting theory. That means, ATM, that those guys from ZL9 are probably the BBS-est guys around?
I remember another theory from one guy who claimed 70 years ago that guys with blue eyes and blond hair are more superior than others...
Stupid people don't have geographic latitude, longitude, nationality... they are, simple as that, stupid.

Greetings from South Europe

Dragan, 4O4A
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K3STX
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2012, 06:52:01 AM »

Despite being much further away, more CW QSOs were with EU (41,020) than with NA (37,019) !!

Perhaps the reason for that is quite simple: perhaps there are more DXers in Europe than there are in NA.

But to directly address the question, I planning on using my simple dipoles for my QSO. 40 feet up, that (and 400 watts) should do it. At least I hope so.

paul
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K0AP
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2012, 07:16:04 AM »

Well organized and large dxpeditions to rare DXCC countries pay equal attention to both NA and EU. Over the last 25 years I have seen few bad apples here and there but not quite favoring one continent over the other. However, from my own experience, I must say that it is much easier to work rare DX from NA than from EU. I was Z32XX for more than 20 years and I know for fact that overall the NA operators are more disciplined and polite in the pileups.

73 Dragan K0AP
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 07:20:34 AM by K0AP » Logged
W2IRT
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 08:43:10 AM »

Well organized and large dxpeditions to rare DXCC countries pay equal attention to both NA and EU. Over the last 25 years I have seen few bad apples here and there but not quite favoring one continent over the other. However, from my own experience, I must say that it is much easier to work rare DX from NA than from EU. I was Z32XX for more than 20 years and I know for fact that overall the NA operators are more disciplined and polite in the pileups.

I don't doubt they are, but the other side of the equation is that propagation vastly favours Europe to the bulk of the rarest entities on earth than it does to North America. By a substantial margin, the rarest entities are in Asia and the islands in the southern Indian Ocean. Think P5, BS7, FT5W, FT5Z, FR/T, FRJ/E, FR/G, VK0H, VK0M, S2, XZ and so on. Yes, they're workable from NA but EU will have openings on more bands and for more hours, than NA will. Often propagation from those locations favours both Europe and NA at the same time, but due to distance or a polar path, EU signals will be received louder than NAs.

Yes, there are a small handful of rare ones that are/would-be easier from NA. KP1/5, the rare KHs, and so on, but, as I've stated elsewhere, the hardest to work entities for us in North America--especially east of the Mississippi, and the northeast in specific--are also some of the rarest on the planet. So we have their rarity, a purely polar path AND an unruly mess out of Europe to contend with. And often it's a tag-team of Europe and Japan that we have to fight, as well as our own continent's coasts. Take BS7H, for example, EU always had vastly better propagation, Japan had 24/7 propagation, and ops from the northeast had to fight the west coast wall and a polar path at solar minimum (Just as those on the Pacific coast have to fight the east coast wall to Europe for rare ones like Mt. Athos).

Now, look at the polar paths from Europe, over the same distances as we in NA/east have to fight through for ultra-rare ones like BS7 and P5. It's basically everything in the South Pacific, and with the exception of KH1 and KH3, and FW to a lesser degree, pretty well everything down there is on at least once every couple of years. Very little is considered "rare" from that part of the world. Harder to work, certainly, but not rare.

So now in the case of Heard, I just ran a quick-and-dirty comparison between Z3-to-VK0H and W2 to VK0H for March 2014, with an SFI of 80 and a K of 1, using W6EL (customized for the gain features of my own antennas, which I wasn't about to change).

Z3 path: Multi-hour (all-day or all night, depending on the band) openings of good reliability from 12 to 80m short path; and even an all-day possibility on 20m Long Path.

W2 path: 5 hours, max, on 80. 7 hours on 40; 9-10 hours on 30 but poor reliability, A few hours scattered throughout the day on 20 (with less than 1-25% reliability for most of them, a few in the 25-50% range) and a handful in the upper bands with low to moderate availabilities. Yes, we'll be able to work them with reasonable stations, but the same time as most of these openings are happening, Europe will also be open, with louder signals and operators with poorer discipline, plus we'll have the W6 wall to pass through at the same time. I'm grateful that the bulk of NA operators are better behaved than their European counterparts, believe me!
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