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Author Topic: The other side of the pileup... Needless duplicate contacts - enough already!  (Read 3831 times)
N4UM
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Posts: 440




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« on: December 10, 2012, 11:02:46 AM »

I've been in the Bahamas the past 3 weeks with two contesters/DXers - C6AKQ & C6AUM.   I've just been doing casual ragchewing for the most part on the digital modes while the other two guys have been going at it hot and heavy on CW and have worked many thousands of stations. 

In more than a few instances I've heard them complain about a number of stations that have worked them 5 or 6 times on the same band/mode.   My question is for what possible purpose?  All these insecure, inconsiderate jerks do is make the pileups more difficult for everyone and incur the ire of the DX station they insist on working.  Enough already!

C6A is certainly not very high on the most wanted list but if you don't have it you might like a chance at working it.  Your chances are reduced by the inconsiderate individuals whose apparent insecurity causes them to insist on multiple duplicate contacts.  If it were me I'd simply refuse to confirm any QSO where the other station appears in my log more than twice on any band/mode.   I think if other DX stations (particularly expeditions to rare locations) were to adopt such procedures things might improve.

Tim, N4UM/C6ARU
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K6UJ
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Posts: 305




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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 12:47:06 PM »

I agree.  I can see working them twice to make sure you made it but thats it.
They could reply contest style with worked B4 if this is the third time.  (I think this would be possible to track with computer logging)

73,
Bob
K6UJ
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AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 01:35:07 PM »

First, I'd like to thank C6AKQ for LOTW confirmation on 160.  Any 160 contact let alone confirmation is a real unusual event for me!

Has your group ever considered the fact that it might be related to operators that are using a paper log?  Even today, not everyone uses a computer for logging  In years past when I used a paper log I never even considered or worried about the possibility of a dupe.  If everytime that I considered making a contact with someone I examined my log first to see if I had worked them before on the same band/mode, they be gone and I'd be without that QSO.  I also encounter the problem when I operate with our club doing the "13 Colonies Special event".  Those pileups and demand for the QSO is sometimes overwhelming but when somebody dupes I just thank them and keep on trucking.  No big thing! 

It might be taking away from others that might need your contact for an ATNO, but just move on and hope it gets better.  Keep amateur radio fun!  That's my 2 cents.
Randy
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VU2CDP
Member

Posts: 50




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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 12:38:26 AM »

Thank you for the new one. At times it is near impossible to break the EU wall when trying to work stations in the Caribbean.

C6AUM    12/12/06    1344Z    21008.0    tu fr looking fr Asia. up 1     VU2CDP-#

Won't say much about EU behaviour except that it forces people on this side of the planet to improve their listening/ operating skills  Wink

73,
Deepak VU2CDP
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 12:40:33 AM by VU2CDP » Logged
K3TN
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 01:47:34 AM »

I operated as KP2/K3TN back in June, made about 1500 contacts and seemed to see less than 1% dupes. I did give my callsign after just about every single QSO - while that hurts rate, it helps dupes. When people don't hear a call sign within 2-3 QSOs they tend to work first, worry later.

I also had the function on in the N1MM logging software to acknowledge when I corrected a call. When people aren't sure if the first QSO was a clean one, they call back in for an insurance contact.

I did operate during the All Asian CW contest a bit and I think I was the victim of a busted spot - I had a burst of calls with an unusual number of dupes.

Now, I just received a QSL card request (with green stamps and SASE) from a JA ham for 3 contacts, two of which are on 30M CW a day apart. Essentially a QSL request for dupe contacts - not sure I understand the logic there. Since the label is computer printed, seems like paper logging wasn't the culprit there.


73 John K3TN
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John K3TN
N3QE
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Posts: 2024




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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 04:28:36 AM »

OK there are large chunks of the world where C6 is rare DX and that's probably what you guys want to work - they certainly want to work you. To get to a lot of it, you guys probably point your beam straight over the US. If there's a super-loud station CQ'ing over most of North America... don't be surprised if some of us just (out of basic ham instinct) reply and say hi. Believe it or not, most of us do not go check our DXCC records and decide to reject all QSO's with country-band-modes we have worked before. We certainly don't check individual calls every time just to make sure we don't QSO the same station twice. Some of us even enjoy working a DX station the second, third, fourth, etc. time! I have good friends in Australia that I QSO with regularly.
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W1VT
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Posts: 800




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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 05:55:10 AM »

I consider it good operating practice not to dupe a station running a pileup on the same band/mode I've worked before--but it is easier said than done, particularly on a crowded band. 

In the 10M contest I worked two stations with by sending my call and exchange just once--luckily--neither contact turned out to be a dupe!
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NU4B
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Posts: 2143




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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 07:37:27 AM »

I worked the last C6 I will ever need last weekend - C6AVA on NA-054. (Other than DX Marathon)

Many of the C6 calls you hear are the same guys that go down year after year (or contest after contest). I of course work them in the contests. Outside of contests I may work them if I hear them calling CQ with no responses for a few minutes. But that's rare that I would even stick around on a freq unless I needed it for something. There are others on the other side of the world that need many of the islands in the Caribbean, there's no need for me to get in the way.

Come to think about it, its been along time since I worked somebody that actually lives in C6. Probably back in the 80s.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 08:57:07 AM »

When people don't hear a call sign within 2-3 QSOs they tend to work first, worry later.

That's just the point..... you should NOT work someone UNLESS you know their callsign. Doing so makes things even worse because now, you have to ask for a callsign and if you don't, expecting the DX to give a callsign and they don't, now you have to wait and HOPE you can get it in the next few QSOs or call AGAIN. The DX Code, which is totally voluntary but highly recommended by most, recommends that you know the callsign BEFORE answering.

I have heard more than once, in BIG pileups, some schmuck who has a mega signal tell the DX something akin to "Thanks for coming back to me, Harry. You're still 59 plus like you were yesterday and the day before when I worked you here. Glad you're having fun there and <blah> <blah> <blah>". It's like they have to show the world that they can work the DX station whenever they want to.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
N7SMI
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Posts: 305




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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 03:07:12 PM »

"Thanks for coming back to me, Harry. You're still 59 plus like you were yesterday and the day before when I worked you here...

"I know you have lot's of people calling, so I won't keep you, but {insert 3 minutes of station, weather, and recent bodily ailment descriptions here}."

Sometimes I wish I could punch people in the face over RF.

I worked C6AKQ last week for a new one. Thanks!
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WD4ELG
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Posts: 860




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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 12:11:35 PM »

W5DQ nailed it.  It is BAD BAD behavior to call a station and NOT KNOW his callsign (happens a LOT).

I CAN think of an instance where I called a DX station same mode/band for a dupe.  I did it with T32C Clipperton in 2011, becauase I was trying to work him QRP.  I figured that if I could get through with 5 watts, I would not be taking away anyone else's QSO.  I did the same for VP5/W5CW in 2008, worked him with 500 mW from the car.  Again, I don't feel too guilty about these types of QSO's as long as I only do it when I need it.
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KH6DC
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Posts: 632




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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 09:09:09 PM »

To call a station not knowing their callsign is a violation of the DX Code of Conduct by not listening.
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
KH6DC
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Posts: 632




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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 09:14:20 PM »

W5DQ nailed it.  It is BAD BAD behavior to call a station and NOT KNOW his callsign (happens a LOT).

I CAN think of an instance where I called a DX station same mode/band for a dupe.  I did it with T32C Clipperton in 2011, becauase I was trying to work him QRP.  I figured that if I could get through with 5 watts, I would not be taking away anyone else's QSO.  I did the same for VP5/W5CW in 2008, worked him with 500 mW from the car.  Again, I don't feel too guilty about these types of QSO's as long as I only do it when I need it.

BTW, T32C was Eastern Kiribati (Christmas Island) not Clipperton.  Made me check my logs again since I needed Clipperton  Grin
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
WD4ELG
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Posts: 860




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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 01:36:59 AM »

Yep, thanks for that correction.  Sorry, suffering from medicine head here with the flu.  73
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NU4B
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Posts: 2143




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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 04:42:04 AM »

To call a station not knowing their callsign is a violation of the DX Code of Conduct by not listening.

Its also the sign of a bad op. I don't think I've ever run into a situation where a little listening didn't reveal the DX station's call sign. Also assuming the DX spot network is correct is a bad mistake. Verify for yourself is the best policy. (At least you would avoid the embarrassment of re-spotting the wrong call.)
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