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Author Topic: Abbreviations  (Read 1710 times)
VK3GDM
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Posts: 28




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« on: December 23, 2008, 01:48:11 PM »

Has anyone heard 'tre' used in CW QSO before?

I think it means 'there'.
I thought 'dr' was used for 'there', but it seems 'dr' means 'dear'.
I've been calling alot of people 'dear'.. Hi..

These abbreviations seem to throw me. I'm sure I miss quite a few because I don't recognize them, probably discard them and move on to the next word.
Many abbreviations are obvious put some are not.

All part of learning the CW language I suppose.  

Merry Xmas HNY
David
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M0JHA
Member

Posts: 647




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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 02:03:13 PM »

im with you on the one re abbreviations. some are not quite obveous and some are.

re the DR don't worry lots of people use it for example "ok dr david es tnx fer qso" its ok theres nothing strange about it :-)

billy
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K0OD
Member

Posts: 2520




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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 08:57:20 PM »

In 50 years I've never heard 'tre' and I certainly never called a ham "dear" which WAS quite popular in Eastern Europe about 20 years ago.  Guess that was a ham version of the corporate world "air kissing" fad. And akin to phone nets where everyone is "my good friend."

Just because you hear it on the air, doesn't mean it's good communication practice. When in doubt, use standard language.

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W8ZNX
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2008, 01:18:53 AM »

have never heard either used

just for the heck of it checked
the 1936, and 1937 the Radio Handbook *
and
1940, 1954, 1964,  Amateur's Radio Handbook

nope
no DR and no TRE

mind TR was used for " there "
and is listed in some pre war handbooks

mac

* pre war copys of  " the Radio Handbook "
have lots of Q signals that nobody but nobody uses any more
like QRA
what is the name of your station?
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M0JHA
Member

Posts: 647




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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2008, 01:46:17 AM »

Well the europeans are usind DR lots. I simply use it because im new and have gone with what seems to be being said knowing no better..

I also use .-.-.- for period  as apposed to what i hear more commonly ..--..

Why? because this is what i read was correct the second one being (apparently) early american code and the first example being current international or continental code. (which is what is sent on my morse tutor also)

billy
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K7UNZ
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Posts: 691




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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2008, 04:47:44 AM »

Been a CW guy for about 50 years, and "tre" is a new one on me (hi).

The standard for making abbreviations (in English) has been to drop vowels from words, as they are easily restored in your mind.  This is in addition to the "normal" list of abbreviations, some of which have more than one abbreviation for a word.  PLS/PSE for please, TKS/TNX for thanks, etc.  However, when in doubt, spell it out (hi).

Some of us "OF's" still use those Q-signals mentioned previously.  QRA, QSA, QRV, etc., all still have a place in CW.

And PLEASE, don't forget pro-signs!  DE, K, AR, SK, CL, etc. They were developed for a reason!

The current fad seems to be to just do what you want, even if it makes no sense.  I.E.  Sending "CQ CQ K7UNZ K7UNZ"  Means you're calling anyone (CQ) and also K7UNZ, but you never identify your own station (DE -----) or ask for a reply (K).  Duh!  Wonder why you don't get many answers?

OK, off the soap box....no, I'm not perfect either!

73, Jim/k7unz
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M0JHA
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Posts: 647




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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2008, 07:52:59 AM »

No you make a valid point jim. Im all for having a way of doing things. This is what keeps it from slipping into no mans land where a free for all commences.

Here in the uk we are seeing many many newcomers who want to do things there way now they have a ticket .

result, no difference between amateur radio and cb especially on the 2 and 70 fm bands..  shame.

so im of the opinion anyone who takes pride in this great hobby of ours shouldn't feel like they are being an old fart or stuck in the dark ages because they feel it is special and shouldn't be allowed to slip into a free for all..

billy
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K0OD
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Posts: 2520




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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 06:33:57 PM »

"Duh! Wonder why you don't get many answers?"


Contest stations started dropping "DE" and "BK" etc at the dawn of contest memory keyers decades ago. Those stations are ones who WIN contests with thousands of Qs. (have you ever worked WAZ or 2,000 Qs in a weekend?).

Believe me, many diehard contesters have discussed, analyzed and polished to high gloss every molecule of contesting efficiency.

Before the last CQWW CW I stupidly programmed my exchange to end with BK. (K0OD 5NN T4 599 T4 BK). The unnecessary BK was unexpected by the other station who often started transmitting 2-3 seconds early causing me to miss some of his next transmission.

Among top CW contesters (those who make several hundred gorgeous Qs in an hour!) rhythm is important, and unnecessary and unexpected pro-signs break rhythm.

I admit some modern contest practice may be confusing to the newbie. But within seconds anyone can figure out what is meant by "CQ K0OD  CQ K0OD [silence]."

--------------

"DE, K, AR, SK, CL, etc. They were developed for a reason!"


Most are rooted in traffic handling by straight-keyed spark at 15 to 20 wpm on noisy 200 meters. Even 1960s contest stations were sloth-like compared to modern Q rates.  
   




 
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W7ETA
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Posts: 2528




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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2008, 06:37:06 PM »

TKS FER CALL DR OM used to be quite common from EU ops.

Remember, some places think it is Happy Christmas and Merry New Year and that Cricket scores makes sense?!

73
Bob
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M0JHA
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Posts: 647




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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2008, 03:41:10 AM »

Mmmmm  i can't recall anyone mentioning contests. A contest is another story where speed and efficiency is probably best. I have heard stations simply send call sign and test that's it, contest operating wasn't the point of the post.

 Nor did i recall anyone saying they didn't get many answers.

If you don't understand cricket scores then thats no problem, just ask any 3 year old British child and im sure they will explain it for you.

but then its not american so there must be something wrong with it.

billy

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N8UZE
Member

Posts: 1524




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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2008, 06:52:19 AM »

M0JHA

..--.. is the question mark and is never used to replace the period.
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M0JHA
Member

Posts: 647




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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2008, 07:11:48 AM »

exactly yet this is used commonly as a period . It is early american morse code for  period..

.-.-.- is what should be being used as international code. yet i seem to be one of few who i hear anyway using it.

or maybe i simply cant read code..

billy
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W5ESE
Member

Posts: 550


WWW

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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2008, 10:01:26 AM »

> .-.-.- is what should be being used as international code. yet i
> seem to be one of few who i hear anyway using it.
>
> or maybe i simply cant read code..

No; almost no one uses the period ( .-.-.- ). It's been that way for
a very long time.

In the classic 1956 QST article 'Your Novice Accent - And What To
Do About It', the author mentions the use of punctuation (except
the question mark and the double dash [BT]) as a sure sign of a
 'Novice Accent'.

http://www.geocities.com/scottamcmullen/Accent.pdf

which is still a great article, although of few of the tips are obsolete
now that almost everyone uses a transceiver with a VFO instead of
separates with crystals.

73
Scott
W5ESE
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M0JHA
Member

Posts: 647




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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2008, 12:02:34 PM »

this is confusing stuff for newcomers. its like trying to learn a new language with many people from the same country telling you how it should be done, all differently.

is there a site or article thats up to date and correct and above all agrreed upon by the majority who "speak" it?

billy
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M0JHA
Member

Posts: 647




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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2008, 12:15:34 PM »

just done a google search and all i came up with is .-.-.-  for period Huh

same on my "just learn morse"  program and morse generator. why all the same thing if this is not what im  supposed to be using ?

billy
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