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Author Topic: Is crossbanding between Amateur / GMRS legal?  (Read 13249 times)
NI6G
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 12:12:31 PM »

Pathetic.   Sad

To clarify, it is sad that an Extra-class licensee, the original poster KT0DD even started this thread to begin with.

How could he have passed his Extra not knowing that it's illegal?

To the other hams (and doomsday preppers "eavesdropping") in this thread:

No, you can NOT transmit on any frequency to any Non Part-97 Service in any "emergency", regardless of how "dire" the circumstances you believe may be. It is illegal, irrefutably. Period. End of story.
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K1ZJH
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Posts: 898




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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 12:30:09 PM »

Pathetic.   Sad

To clarify, it is sad that an Extra-class licensee, the original poster KT0DD even started this thread to begin with.

How could he have passed his Extra not knowing that it's illegal?

To the other hams (and doomsday preppers "eavesdropping") in this thread:

No, you can NOT transmit on any frequency to any Non Part-97 Service in any "emergency", regardless of how "dire" the circumstances you believe may be. It is illegal, irrefutably. Period. End of story.

If it is a dire life or death scenario, you certainly may.  But, it had better be legit!!!!

Pete
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NK7Z
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Posts: 734


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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 12:37:18 PM »

Pathetic.   Sad

To the other hams (and doomsday preppers "eavesdropping") in this thread:

No, you can NOT transmit on any frequency to any Non Part-97 Service in any "emergency", regardless of how "dire" the circumstances you believe may be. It is illegal, irrefutably. Period. End of story.

It appears that you are at difference in this as far as the FCC is concerened...  See:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol5/xml/CFR-2011-title47-vol5-sec97-403.xml
It seems it is OK to cross service, as well as almost anything else as long as you can justify the risk to life or property.  Although not to disagree with you, this discussion as it relates to cross service communications NOT during an emergency, should have never happened...  Every ham should know this...

73's
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NI6G
Member

Posts: 35




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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 01:10:40 PM »

No, I am right!!

Everyone's attention span and reading comprehension is lacking.

This whole thread makes me want to vomit.

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NK7Z
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Posts: 734


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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 01:16:27 PM »

No, I am right!!

You should probably contact the FCC then and advise them that they have part 97 wrong...

73's,
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NI6G
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 01:17:50 PM »

If you think I'm wrong, then just ask the San Mateo County Sherif's Department.

Actually, don't, they're too busy to be bothered by idiots.

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NK7Z
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 01:28:35 PM »

Quoted from earlier today:
No, you can NOT transmit on any frequency to any Non Part-97 Service in any "emergency", regardless of how "dire" the circumstances you believe may be. It is illegal, irrefutably. Period. End of story.
Quoted in last post:
If you think I'm wrong, then just ask the San Mateo County Sherif's (sic) Department.  
The San Mateo County Sheriff's Department does not administer the air waves...  I see no way you can site them as the final authority on FCC R&R...  Please respond to the FCC, as they seem to have part 97 in error, or perhaps the Sherif's (sic), department should raid and arrest the FCC staff...

73's
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KT0DD
Member

Posts: 277




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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 04:11:34 PM »

Some are too lazy to do research...so here it is in plain english...

§ 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.
 
It seems I've once again stirred up some of the Emcomm elitist control mongerers who feel the need to control everything because something in their life is lacking.

It's been a long time since my tech exam, and these sort of rule questions wern't on my extra exam. I thought since we can work split on HF outside of our allocations with foreign stations, that maybe it was legal on VHF / UHF.  Apparently not. But polite and non sarcastic replies aren't constructive. Like the old saying goes...you catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
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KD5KFL
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Posts: 55




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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 06:23:43 PM »

I encountered a book today that fits the situation here...

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Hollywood/2012/11/10/joy-hate/475x356_joyofhate.jpg
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NK7Z
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Posts: 734


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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 06:42:01 PM »

Some are too lazy to do research...so here it is in plain english...

§ 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.
 
It seems I've once again stirred up some of the Emcomm elitist control mongerers who feel the need to control everything because something in their life is lacking.

It's been a long time since my tech exam, and these sort of rule questions wern't on my extra exam. I thought since we can work split on HF outside of our allocations with foreign stations, that maybe it was legal on VHF / UHF.  Apparently not. But polite and non sarcastic replies aren't constructive. Like the old saying goes...you catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Already quoted that, and no real response other than a statement to the effect of "I am Right!!" from NI6G, with some bogon citation from some sherif's (sic), department as final authority with regards to on air enforcement...   Your question was perfectly valid, and NI6G should not have responded as he did to you, it was unfair and petty of him.

73's,
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 11:57:14 PM »

Quote
But polite and non sarcastic replies aren't constructive. Like the old saying goes...you catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

What I wanna know is, who wants to catch flies?  I try to chase them away.
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KT0DD
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Posts: 277




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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 02:50:19 AM »

 Cheesy LOL...good one...
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MAGNUM257
Member

Posts: 159




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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 10:18:51 AM »

If you think I'm wrong, then just ask the San Mateo County Sherif's Department.

Actually, don't, they're too busy to be bothered by idiots.



WOW! someone needs to take their meds...

No reason to get your panties all ruffled!
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2012, 05:11:58 AM »

In just about any case, NI6G, you are prohibited from doing so, but if there is an IMMEDIATE threat to life--IOW, a life or death situation--and there is absolutely no other way to summon help, you are permitted to use whatever means necessary to get the help needed.  The kicker is this--you had better be prepared to show that what you did is the only way that help could have been gotten in time, something which may be next to impossible to prove.

Also, a sheriff's department cannot arrest you for a life or death emergency transmission on their assigned frequency unless you were interfering with their communications--something else that you may be hard pressed to prove that you weren't doing.  They can and will arrest you, however, for interference with law enforcement officials--something that the FCC regulations does not cover.  They can also make life miserable for you from then on when they see you with a radio in your hands.

The final analysis is this.  Don't transmit out of service unless you are in an emergency life or death situation, have absolutely no other way to summon help in time, AND are prepared to accept that you may be arrested and or prosecuted for doing so.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 05:18:17 AM by K1CJS » Logged
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13016




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« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2012, 04:03:00 PM »

When in doubt, go to the source:

Quote from: FCC Part 97
§ 97.111 Authorized transmissions
(a) An amateur station may transmit the following types of two-way communications:
(1) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with other stations in the amateur service...
...
(3) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in another FCC-regulated service while providing emergency communications;
...
(5) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in a service not regulated by the FCC, but authorized by the FCC to communicate with amateur stations. An amateur station may exchange messages with a participating United States military station during an Armed Forces Day Communications Test.


§ 97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
...
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.




So back to the OP, the rules say that you can use amateur radio to talk to a station in
another service regulated by the FCC in case of an emergency, or to a service not
regulated by the FCC when they are authorized to work amateur stations (with the
specific permission for Armed Forces Day contacts.

FRS/GMRS doesn't qualify on either count, except in an emergency.

There is, in fact, a specific prohibition in § 97.113 on using ham radio when another
service is available.  I would interpret that to mean that working a GMRS/FRS station
would be illegal because such communications could reasonably be furnished alternatively
by GMRS/FRS.

Now, you can, of course, argue to what extent these rules apply to your specific
case, but I suspect that the FCC will not be sympathetic to arguments that "once a
week" doesn't count as a "regular basis" under § 97.113(a)(5).
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