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Author Topic: ZL9HR money?  (Read 38925 times)
KD6KVL
Member

Posts: 80




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« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2012, 08:30:21 PM »

I don't understand why this keeps going in circles, it keeps being said that they only paid $1650 for the trip, but the other $6000 to the boat isn't an expense?
Did John and Tommy get compensated by the donations for this?
John your not shining in a great light here, and you keep changing the subject about sending money back and uploading lotw, whats the deal?

While I like the transparency concept, I've heard from a well known dxpeditioner that there certain expenses on these trips that are vital for things to move foward that cannot be publisized for security reasons.
I don't care so much for transparency when it could involve harm to come from someone out there trying to help get one of these things off the ground.
Lets just keep in mind that a lot of the rare countries we need are dangerous places, and the guys who go there are certainly risking life and limb for our HOBBY.

Frank KG6N
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2749




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« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2012, 08:31:17 PM »


Its a hypothetical based on a really pessimistic number of donors that will soon be needed for ANY serious and even remotely rare dx-pedition to take place. Let me explain in full my thinking.

If you are saying futures expeditions - not even to places like Heard - , but to even semi-rare destinations are going to require 100 donors each donating $100, plus all the other $5, 10, and $20 donations, I am afraid we are going to come up short - far short.  

Most of our serious DXers are age 50 and above, and many are older, some much older. We have a large number of serious DXers on fixed incomes. We can forget about today's youth entering the hobby because they just are not into amateur radio. I just don't see where the additional money is going to come from.

What are you factoring in?  Is it an anticipated large increase in the cost of expeditions or our older members passing on without being replaced? Or none of the above?

73,

Chris/NU1O

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KD6KVL
Member

Posts: 80




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« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2012, 08:36:08 PM »

I'm 33 and don't meet many hams my age, I'm not in a financial position to start paying $10,000 to go on multi-week dxpeditions.
Frank KG6N
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KY6R
Member

Posts: 3277


WWW

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« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2012, 08:41:31 PM »


Its a hypothetical based on a really pessimistic number of donors that will soon be needed for ANY serious and even remotely rare dx-pedition to take place. Let me explain in full my thinking.

If you are saying futures expeditions - not even to places like Heard - , but to even semi-rare destinations are going to require 100 donors each donating $100, plus all the other $5, 10, and $20 donations, I am afraid we are going to come up short - far short.  

Most of our serious DXers are age 50 and above, and many are older, some much older. We have a large number of serious DXers on fixed incomes. We can forget about today's youth entering the hobby because they just are not into amateur radio. I just don't see where the additional money is going to come from.

What are you factoring in?  Is it an anticipated large increase in the cost of expeditions or our older members passing on without being replaced? Or none of the above?

73,

Chris/NU1O



When DXpeditions cost from $100K (ZL9HR) - $800K (Heard) and the largest DX Club or foundation gives $5K, then do the math - where do you come up with whats needed?

My hypothetical amount of 100 individual donors at $100 = $10K . . . a drop in the bucket . .

Believe me - I am working on this right now with Heard Island . . . .

You charge the particpants what?  Yeah - a lot. How many hams can afford to pay this much to go on such a trip - plus miss work for 4 - 6 weeks?

No money, no DX-pedition . . . . I have no doubt why the Top 10 Rare DX-peds are rarely activated, and why some might never be activated again . .
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VK3YP
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2012, 08:42:51 PM »

LoTW upload was completed and announced on dx world 8 hours ago.
It's keep going around because of all the commentators who need to organize and run a dxpedition themselves before making comments from their armchairs.
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KY6R
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Posts: 3277


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« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2012, 08:51:25 PM »

LoTW upload was completed and announced on dx world 8 hours ago.

Thank you.
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2749




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« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2012, 09:04:53 PM »

I don't understand why this keeps going in circles, it keeps being said that they only paid $1650 for the trip, but the other $6000 to the boat isn't an expense?
Did John and Tommy get compensated by the donations for this?
John your not shining in a great light here, and you keep changing the subject about sending money back and uploading lotw, whats the deal?

Frank KG6N

I have been puzzled by the very same thing. John always leaves out the cost of the boat out as if they didn't pay for it. I guess because the boat owner was paid directly by team members it is not real money. The cost was more like $8,000 plus there is a thing such as opportunity cost, or the money earned if one had stayed home and worked.

After reading Rich's very somber analysis we had better recruit some billionaire into the hobby like the Reynolds tobacco heir of years gone by. Howard Hughes was a ham as a young boy. Maybe we can ask HHMI for donations in his memory.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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VK3YP
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2012, 09:48:29 PM »

Read the comments on DX world again from team members - "We only want financial summary and not any money".
Opportunity cost ? How much effort and personal funds do you think the actual organizers put into this event ?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 09:52:20 PM by VK3YP » Logged
KD6KVL
Member

Posts: 80




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« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2012, 09:55:46 PM »

I think you've clarified this information will be on the website, unless your offering to state it here.
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WL7E
Member

Posts: 7




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« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2012, 05:22:59 AM »

Tommy VK2IR was heard working E51E on 40 ssb earlier prior to 1000z.
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W5JON
Member

Posts: 174




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« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2012, 06:13:13 AM »

This thread is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Can the simple question as to who paid for the boat, and where the money came from, that transported the team to the island not be clearly answered. It seems to me that it is not that difficult a question, and would resolve a lot of the money issues.

73,

John
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 06:29:24 AM by W5JON » Logged
9M6XRO
Member

Posts: 8




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« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2012, 07:16:47 AM »

This thread is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Can the simple question as to who paid for the boat, and where the money came from, that transported the team to the island not be clearly answered. It seems to me that it is not that difficult a question, and would resolve a lot of the money issues.

73,

John


It's very simple, John, the boat costs were paid by the team members. We also paid our share for fuel for the generators and landing fees. Like the others I paid the equivalent of US$8730. The whole thing is very simple - all sponsorship and donations, everything, went to HARAOA and we have been told by VK3YP that the team members will receive no assistance with our expenses from those funds. VK2IR the Team Leader has not said one word on the subject.
That's it in a nutshell, an explanation in 5 lines, all the rest is a smoke screen.
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K4HB
Member

Posts: 4




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« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2012, 08:07:49 AM »

I have read the comments on DX World and eHam. Judging by these comments, it appears there's a lack of transparency by the leaders of ZL9HR. I'm of the opinion that any surplus money should be evenly distributed to the team members who paid up front. Perhaps this was or wasn't agreed to prior to the DXpedition, but it's the right thing to do. That's who I wanted money to go to for DXpeditions I've contributed to, NOT future DXpeditions. I pick and choose which DXpeditions I contribute to and how much, the same as I tip servers in restaurants. I'm also of the opinion that there should be full financial disclosure to the team members and major contributors.

Anyone who QSLed via OQRS contributed something. Their cost to use OQRS is €4 minus the PayPal fee. (.30 + 3.9% or about 50¢) Postage to send from Spain is .85€ US and .70€ Europe. I don't have a problem with this, as we have a choice to use OQRS and contribute or send direct via mail and only contribute if we wish. I chose to use OQRS and tossed in a tiny bit extra. I would have sent more, but I wasn't satisfied with their low band efforts to the US East Coast. I didn't need them for an all time new one, but was hoping for the low bands. I do believe chances would have been better on 80 if they had spent more time on CW than on RTTY.

While all of us didn't get all the bands we wanted, many did get an all time new one. So for that, they were a successful operation. Judging by the comments and having worked them on the air, it appears they had some great ops but lacked leadership. Lashing out with insults and profanities on forums says a lot about character. From my experience in workplace situations, I've noticed that leaders with character have more respect, and are more effective. And people with character can carry on a civil discussion.

73, Hal  K4HB
http://www.k4hb.com
http://www.Hi-TechRedneck.com
http://www.k4hb.com/postage.html


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VK3YP
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2012, 03:07:20 PM »

The agreement between the team was that their contribution would be calculated based on the donations received/pledged. That's why the contribution fee was a low amount of $1000 per op.
Other team members have stated on DX World that they don't want any money but only a financial statement.

The original agreement was posted on DX world by team member ZL3CW. The individual contribution amount would be calculated on donations / sponsorship received. It was agreed by all and paid.

John 9M6XR0 has enlisted the assistance of his fellow countryman Col to drive an impartial "court" on his DX World site.
My message to Col is to organize and run a major dxpedition yourself one day.



This thread is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Can the simple question as to who paid for the boat, and where the money came from, that transported the team to the island not be clearly answered. It seems to me that it is not that difficult a question, and would resolve a lot of the money issues.

73,

John


It's very simple, John, the boat costs were paid by the team members. We also paid our share for fuel for the generators and landing fees. Like the others I paid the equivalent of US$8730. The whole thing is very simple - all sponsorship and donations, everything, went to HARAOA and we have been told by VK3YP that the team members will receive no assistance with our expenses from those funds. VK2IR the Team Leader has not said one word on the subject.
That's it in a nutshell, an explanation in 5 lines, all the rest is a smoke screen.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 03:39:05 PM by VK3YP » Logged
MM0NDX
Member

Posts: 209




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« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2012, 03:40:39 PM »

Quote
John 9M6XR0 has enlisted the assistance of his fellow countryman Col to drive an impartial "court" on his DX World site.

My message to Col is to organize and run a major dxpedition yourself one day.

1) Actually, 3YP -- John XRO has done nothing of the sort. I don't know John from Adam. Fact.

2) Your "message" is loud and clear and really doesn't surprise me. With every new reply you type, the more foolish you are becoming. Isn't it about time you took a little rest and let the real "leader" have a say?

3) Indeed, if you'd actually researched my brief ham history, I was the driving force and leader behind CY9M. We also had a signed agreement regarding surplus..

4) "Impartial" court" - ?

Whatever you want to call it does not wash with me. You, sir, have been found out and the dx world are truly disgusted. The damage you (and previously DX0DX) have done is irreparable.

Col, MM0NDX
EU Pilot: ZL9HR


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