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Author Topic: ZL9HR money?  (Read 37408 times)
VK3YP
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2012, 03:49:24 PM »


Col - Please have someone else read and explain the agreement to you. The original op agreement posted on your impeccable website.

Quote
John 9M6XR0 has enlisted the assistance of his fellow countryman Col to drive an impartial "court" on his DX World site.

My message to Col is to organize and run a major dxpedition yourself one day.

1) Actually, 3YP -- John XRO has done nothing of the sort. I don't know John from Adam. Fact.

2) Your "message" is loud and clear and really doesn't surprise me. With every new reply you type, the more foolish you are becoming. Isn't it about time you took a little rest and let the real "leader" have a say?

3) Indeed, if you'd actually researched my brief ham history, I was the driving force and leader behind CY9M. We also had a signed agreement regarding surplus..

4) "Impartial" court" - ?

Whatever you want to call it does not wash with me. You, sir, have been found out and the dx world are truly disgusted. The damage you (and previously DX0DX) have done is irreparable.

Col, MM0NDX
EU Pilot: ZL9HR



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MM0NDX
Member

Posts: 177




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« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »

You mean you are unable (unwilling?) to post the agreement yourself here?

John, cut to the chase, where is the ZL9HR team leader? Can you answer that and can he answer some pretty simple questions which many contributors would like to see.

Quote
The original op agreement posted on your impeccable website.

A website which show-cased or publicised at every opportunity ZL9HR, and well you know it..
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K3STX
Member

Posts: 994




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« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »

The agreement between the team was that their contribution would be calculated based on the donations received/pledged. That's why the contribution fee was a low amount of $1000 per op.

This is like a Twilight Zone episode.

I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry, I like to think of myself as a pretty smart guy. I cannot figure out what any of this means.

IF the DXpedition cost is $100,000 and IF there are 10 guys contributing $1000 each that is $10,000. That leaves a $90,000 "hole" that must be filled.

With NO donation dollars, then those 10 guys come up with EVERYTHING and end up paying $10,000 each.

With $90,000 in donation dollars those guys are DONE, they have paid their $1000.

If XRO and the other 9 have paid $8000 each, $8000 X 10 guys is $80,000. That leaves the team $20,000 short. This is a simple question: (based on this kind of math) Were there only $20,000 total in donations? If YES, then they are SOL and their share is $8000 each. But anything MORE than that $20,000 should be shared with the original 10 contributors to offset their huge expense.

VK3YP: Do you understand this kind of math? Is there something incorrect in this sort of simply math?

By the way: I suspect people "only" want a financial statement so they can know whether or not they are entitled to money. It is unreasonable to expect people to pay $8000 for a trip and NOT have excess funds returned to them.

paul
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K0AP
Member

Posts: 133




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« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2012, 11:07:29 PM »

“20 December 2012 5:28 p.m. John VK3YP said:

At this point in time the DXpedition budget is at a deficit and not in surplus. There will be NO donations paid to team members as this was never agreed prior to dxpedition. If there is any surplus and currently there is no surplus – funds will stay with HARAOA as a non profit organization to fund future events and sponsor dxpeditions.”

“20 December 2012 20:48 p.m. John VK3YP said:

There is no surplus of funds as has been explained to every team member.”

“21 December 2012 00:00 a.m. John VK3YP said:

Paul: There is nothing to resolve – the dxpedition has barely finished and we have not recovered our equipment, paid our bills, paid promised funds from sponsors or even started the QSLing.”

“21 December 2012 07:30 a.m. John VK3YP said:

A financial summary will be prepared when all the QSling etc. is completed and provided to NCDXF along with a payment to NCDXF of any excess funds in order to return to the DX community.”

“21 December 2012 21:12 p.m. John VK3YP said:

Any excess funds will go to NCDXF – an advance payment has already been made.”

My comment:
All this in roughly 24 hours time frame. From, “there is no surplus and we are in deficit” to, “advanced payment has already been made to NCDXF”. With every new post VK3YP more and more contradicts himself. The people have already made their opinion and I am sure it does not favor HARAOA. As someone said previously, this will probably be the last HAM community sponsored HARAOA dxpedition.

73 Dragan K0AP
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KD6KVL
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2012, 11:26:34 PM »

I can't wait to see the financials!
I'd love to see where $17,000 went when the members paid the boat ride, the fuel, $1000 entry fee, and the $650 DoC fees.
So have these prices been reduced $1700 per team member, no your sending the money back/keeping in the coffers for the "next one".
I'm sure the DX community is awaiting the website update.
Frank KG6N
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ZL3CW
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2012, 02:44:13 PM »

I feel really sorry and sad for what’s happening but I don’t regret it. It’s not about the money and/or washing our dirty linen in public but about principles. Most donors sent their contribution to offset the cost of a specific expedition. The ten participants have entered a de-facto partnership not only between them but also with all the donors, where transparency and dialogue should have been established. You, donors, have the right to know what is happening with your contributions. May be some will be happy that the funds go to the organising Body, i.e. HARAOA while others will prefer the funds to be shared evenly between the 10 participants. 8 participants amongst 10 wanted to establish transparency (one comment was posted before about democracy) and were left with no option as the transparency and dialogue didn’t happen. There is nothing wrong to let you know what was going on with your money!

By the way, another of my principles is: what happened on the Island stays on the Island! For me it has been a fantastic adventure and I am glad I was part of it. I have also made new friends whom, I hope, I will meet again. Thanks all of you who called and worked us, sorry for the ones we did not work but be insured that we all did our best to full fill your expectations. Without you, we would not have any reasons to go there; you are also part of the excitement   Wink

We are all very glad to know that logs have been uploaded to LOTW.

Thanks also to those who stand by the same principles and in particular Col, MM0NDX and try to make our hobby a better place.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Jacky, ZL3CW / F2CW
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K9MRD
Member

Posts: 331




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« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2012, 05:34:03 PM »

<<We are all very glad to know that logs have been uploaded to LOTW.>>

When were the logs uploaded to LOTW?

Thanks!

Wayne
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W2IRT
Member

Posts: 2702


WWW

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« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2012, 05:47:38 PM »

Yesterday. They should start matching in about 9 or 10 days from now.
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www.facebook.com/W2IRT
Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
W4VKU
Member

Posts: 348




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« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2012, 07:53:50 PM »

Damn, This was a fantastic expedition and i hate to see it go this
way.

IMHO, QSL revenue is for a club to keep and invest for future expeditions.
However, pledges when collected, donations should
go towards payment of expenses, reimbursement to the operators,
if possible at 100%. They made an investment and should not be
left high and dry.

Any excess funds should be split up and returned on a % of investment basis to all the donors( some may not want it, in
which case, the extra can be sent to a big non-profit donor like
NCDXF).
The donors and the associations are in a better position to decide
and invest in future expeditions that need the funds the most.

This is no different than public corporations paying a
dividend because the shareholders know better to invest their
money rather than the corporation investing in ventures that do
not yield adequate ROI.


Again, i would not like to see some good camaraderie go down
the tubes for some money. Life is too short.

Krish
w4vku
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2690




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« Reply #84 on: December 24, 2012, 12:37:36 AM »

I feel really sorry and sad for what’s happening but I don’t regret it. It’s not about the money and/or washing our dirty linen in public but about principles. Most donors sent their contribution to offset the cost of a specific expedition. The ten participants have entered a de-facto partnership not only between them but also with all the donors, where transparency and dialogue should have been established. You, donors, have the right to know what is happening with your contributions. May be some will be happy that the funds go to the organising Body, i.e. HARAOA while others will prefer the funds to be shared evenly between the 10 participants. 8 participants amongst 10 wanted to establish transparency (one comment was posted before about democracy) and were left with no option as the transparency and dialogue didn’t happen. There is nothing wrong to let you know what was going on with your money!

By the way, another of my principles is: what happened on the Island stays on the Island! For me it has been a fantastic adventure and I am glad I was part of it. I have also made new friends whom, I hope, I will meet again. Thanks all of you who called and worked us, sorry for the ones we did not work but be insured that we all did our best to full fill your expectations. Without you, we would not have any reasons to go there; you are also part of the excitement   Wink

We are all very glad to know that logs have been uploaded to LOTW.

Thanks also to those who stand by the same principles and in particular Col, MM0NDX and try to make our hobby a better place.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Jacky, ZL3CW / F2CW


Jacky,

Thank you for spending about $9,000 of your own money to give me an all-time new one.  I only have two regrets. The first is that donations were not returned to members who advanced the money, made the dangerous trip, made the QSOs possible, and will now not see a dime in recovery money.  My second regret is an organization which will never again put on an international expedition profited so handsomely.

I was pretty sure the eight of you who agreed tried to to settle this with the two members of HARAOA but after reading VK3YP's comments and the lack of even one public comment by group leader, VK2IR, it is obvious to me why you eight did not get anywhere and were forced to bring this matter to the public's attention.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you as well.

73,

Chris/NU1O
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 01:01:33 AM by NU1O » Logged
K3EL
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #85 on: December 24, 2012, 10:34:54 AM »

The content of this posting was jointly crafted by ZL9HR operators:
Jacky Calvo, ZL3CW
Pista Gaspar, HA5AO
Les Kalmus, W2LK
Dave Lloyd, K3EL
Glenn Petri, KE4KY
John Plenderleith, 9M6XRO
Gene Spinelli, K5GS
Don Studney, VE7DS

We acknowledge and welcome John, VK3YP's announcement that full accounts of the ZL9HR DX-pedition will be made publicly available.

Clarity and transparency around the finances was a principal concern and we are happy to learn this may be achieved. However, we wish to reiterate that a detailed analysis of DX-pedition income and expenditure should include the primary expedition costs - the boat charter, freight, government fees, hardware purchases, equipment repairs/replacement, shipping, etc. complete with appropriate receipts for expenses and income (donation) statements. We believe all "investors" deserve this degree of transparency.

John is quite correct in stating that amounts for boat/government fees/freight costs were provided to us, and we all paid before the boat sailed. Each team member paid a total of approximately $8,700(USD) not including personal travel, living and/or medical-evacuation insurance. However, it was always in the broader context that when donations came in they would pay down these expenses. This was communicated to us in April 2012 in e-mails from the team leaders to prospective team members, such as that posted on DX-world by Jacky, ZL3CW.

Please be clear, we don't wish anyone to be unfairly out of pocket, and certainly not John, Tommy or HARAOA. Without their initiative and hard work up-front ZL9HR would not have been on the air in 2012. We fully expect that their legitimate expenses incurred in organizing this DX-pedition be reimbursed, but also that remaining funds from donations given to support ZL9HR be used for that purpose and distributed amongst the ten expedition members who all bore the major expedition costs such as boat charter, landing permit fees, etc. Given that these costs can easily be estimated to be in excess of $100k (greatly in excess of donations, as always expected), and that it will understandably take time before a full financial accounting is forthcoming, the recent announcement of reimbursement to NCDXF of "excess" donations to ZL9HR is puzzling, to say the least.

Finally, to close on positive notes, we are all delighted to see the LoTW upload was completed in warp speed. Whatever our disagreements may be, we all wish to see post-expedition commitments honored in quick and efficient manner. The team was gratified whenever a QSO ended with "Thanks for the All Time New One" which was a key objective of the DX-pedition.

73, Dave, K3EL
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K3STX
Member

Posts: 994




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« Reply #86 on: December 24, 2012, 10:43:29 AM »

Dave, How on earth do you get 8 guys together to write such a cogent note!!!! You have made this crystal clear.

I didn't say it yet, but thanks for an ATNO.

Paul
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AE5X
Member

Posts: 405


WWW

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« Reply #87 on: December 24, 2012, 10:58:56 AM »

An ATNO (#298) for me - thanks guys!

John AE5X
http://www.ae5x.com/blog

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AF3Y
Member

Posts: 3786




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« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2012, 01:50:48 PM »

AND.... an ATNO for me as well..  #311, I believe. MANY Thanks/Well Done!

73 es gud DX, Gene AF3Y
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KY6R
Member

Posts: 3233


WWW

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« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2012, 01:57:24 PM »

Thanks for ATNO #330 - putting me one away from Honor Roll . . . .
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