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Author Topic: ZL9HR money?  (Read 34414 times)
VK3YP
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Posts: 22




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« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2013, 07:54:54 PM »

As far as deducting my own personal funds of $700 that I spent buying a team welcome dinner from donations for our ZL9HR team members.

Do you really think that our largest sponsors who donated $1000+ towards ZL9HR expect most of their sponsorship funds to be spent towards buying 5 star steak dinners in top end NZ restaurants ?

And they still had expectations to spend another $700 on a farewell dinner from sponsors funds as well.


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N6PSE
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Posts: 503


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« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2013, 08:11:06 PM »

It would have been a nice gesture for the leaders to at least attend the farewell dinner even if they didn't want to pay for it.  This is a really unfortunate turn of events for what was otherwise a good DXpedition.  I've read enough that I've made up my mind and know where I stand.
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KY6R
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« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2013, 05:17:59 AM »

I would have preferred that my $100 donation go towards a nice "Thank You" dinner upon arriving back in NZ, embroidered ball caps for all on the team and a thank you email from either you or Tommy for helping out.

As I have said before, stellar radio operation - one that I enjoyed helping out with as a Pilot, but certainly not the post operation turn of events. Sad.
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NU1O
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Posts: 2602




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« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2013, 05:45:33 AM »

The total expenses of the trip were over $100,000.  I don't have a problem with 1.5% of my donation going towards "Welcome To" and "Welcome Home" dinners. I do have a big problem with 98.5% of my donation going to HARAOA rather then the individual team members which was always my intent.

You members of HARAOA should do the right thing and refund the ZL9HR team members the amount of the donations less legitimate expenses and VK3YP can recoup his $700 for a dinner as far as I'm concerned.

Chris/NU1O

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W2LO
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Posts: 212




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« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2013, 05:47:23 AM »

 Tokens of appreciation funded from donations, e.g., a dinner, small memorabilia, etc. are entirely appropriate apart from the main purpose of donations which was to reduce the cost to the participants. Everyone who went on this fine DXpedition sacrificed time and money. I was glad to support it and am disheartened to see this rancor.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 05:55:14 AM by W2LO » Logged
AF3Y
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Posts: 3698




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« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2013, 06:38:36 AM »

Are there only two members of HARAOA? I am surprised that we have not heard from anyone else from their organization.

73, Gene AF3Y
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KY6R
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Posts: 3133


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« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2013, 06:54:36 AM »

HARAOA had a golden opportunity to "leverage" ZL9HR and use it as a showcase to show how capable they were in being able to activate really rare entities.

On the heels of the ZL9HR, they could have announced that they were "working on activating a top 10 entity", and directed people like me to donate to HARAOA's fund. Even a mention of say, Amsterdam / St. Paul - and I would have donated generously.

They even could have sold souvenirs on the HARAOA web site and really get a nice war chest going. If they offered a top shelf embroidered ZL9HR hat on the HARAOA web site, I would have bought two. I would have proudly worn it at Visalia.

Total bummer man, a missed opportunity.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:20:07 AM by KY6R » Logged
NU1O
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Posts: 2602




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« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2013, 07:11:22 AM »

Are there only two members of HARAOA? I am surprised that we have not heard from anyone else from their organization.

73, Gene AF3Y

I have wondered the same thing, Gene.  I hope the other members of HARAOA are fully aware that VK3YP and VK2IR have destroyed whatever goodwill HARAOA had built up over the years. 

From now on when an amateur sees the name HARAOA they will equate it with broken promises and the misuse of donor funds. The other members of HARAOA had better look to join a new club if they would like to go on an expedition to a rare DX entity - as VK3YP and VK2IR did - because the amateur community will never again trust HARAOA to run a DXpedition.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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K7KB
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Posts: 605




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« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2013, 02:33:19 PM »

Well it looks like some organizations are changing the rules a bit before they send money to sponsor DX'peditions. I just received this from INDEXA:

Dear INDEXA Member,

For 30 years, the Officers and Board of INDEXA have taken their responsibility to use your dues properly and with good business practices when helping to fund only the rarest and worthiest DXpeditions. It has always been our goal to use your contributions to the greatest advantage to the worldwide DX community.

Because we are diligent about our screening process in analyzing requests for funding, we are adding another condition that must be met by DXpeditions requesting our financial help. This additional condition is a part of the INDEXA DXpedition Support section on the INDEXA web site www.indexa.org.

The DXpedition must respond affirmatively to the following statement. Otherwise, their request will be denied. Your dues will be used only to support those DXpeditions that share our views about the correct uses of contributed funds.

Here is the statement:

"INDEXA believes that funds contributed to a DXpedition should be used only for that purpose. If there is a surplus of funds after a DXpedition is completed, a refund should be made, using some logical approach, to help offset the personal expenses incurred by individual team members and/or returned to the major sponsors. INDEXA is not concerned how the refunds are made, but does believe that any excess funds should not be held by the organizers for other purposes or projects. Do you agree? Yes or No"

As always, you can be confident that your membership dues will be allocated only to those DXpeditions that are well managed and share our long held views about correct DXpedition practices.

Happy New Year to you all,

Gary Dixon, K4MQG

President

Bob Allphin, K4UEE

Chairman"
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KA1J
Member

Posts: 168




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« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2013, 07:54:16 PM »

Well it looks like some organizations are changing the rules a bit before they send money to sponsor DX'peditions. I just received this from INDEXA:

Dear INDEXA Member,

For 30 years, the Officers and Board of INDEXA have taken their responsibility to use your dues properly and with good business practices when helping to fund only the rarest and worthiest DXpeditions. It has always been our goal to use your contributions to the greatest advantage to the worldwide DX community.

Because we are diligent about our screening process in analyzing requests for funding, we are adding another condition that must be met by DXpeditions requesting our financial help. This additional condition is a part of the INDEXA DXpedition Support section on the INDEXA web site www.indexa.org.

The DXpedition must respond affirmatively to the following statement. Otherwise, their request will be denied. Your dues will be used only to support those DXpeditions that share our views about the correct uses of contributed funds.

Here is the statement:

"INDEXA believes that funds contributed to a DXpedition should be used only for that purpose. If there is a surplus of funds after a DXpedition is completed, a refund should be made, using some logical approach, to help offset the personal expenses incurred by individual team members and/or returned to the major sponsors. INDEXA is not concerned how the refunds are made, but does believe that any excess funds should not be held by the organizers for other purposes or projects. Do you agree? Yes or No"

As always, you can be confident that your membership dues will be allocated only to those DXpeditions that are well managed and share our long held views about correct DXpedition practices.

Happy New Year to you all,

Gary Dixon, K4MQG

President

Bob Allphin, K4UEE

Chairman"


I donated to ZL9HR with what I thought was was going to be a common sense use of the money which to me means it would go to the cost of operations, not the lease hold improvements. To me that means the operation itself had to be covered; the boat, the gas, provisions, applications, all of that. Any extra should be for the members to get compensated. Anything after that is up for grabs but were it "my" DXPedition, I would use that in escrow for the next operation planned and if that became obvious not to happen, then that would be donated to another DXPedition or organization supporting DX efforts.

The way the members of this operation were apparently stiffed has caused me to re-evaluate how I donate, other than my donations to private DXpeditions operating without outside funding. I like the content of the message from INDEXA above and as a consequence, I'm going to join INDEXA and donate extra as an operation comes around they fund and let them be the venue to disperse to the worthy parties. It's a silly waste of time for me to concern myself with the dynamics of an operation I'm not part of. I think this is the most cost effective way for me to actually help get things done and I can stop concerning over the BS I have no control over.

KA1J
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 07:57:29 PM by KA1J » Logged
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2602




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« Reply #115 on: January 17, 2013, 11:12:05 PM »

That is a very strong rebuke of the two HARAOA members of the ZL9HR team by INDEXA.

VK2IR and VK3YP have posted a message on the ZL9HR website. Although a financial accounting was promised to the DX community they have changed their mind and there will no longer be any financials made public.

Here is the latest message from HARAOA:

Thursday, January 17th 2013

ZL9HR Finances

In relation to certain posts on the Internet from ZL9HR team members demanding that HARAOA pay them any surplus money from donation funds. There was never any agreement made between HARAOA and the team members to provide any surplus donation funds to them. The topic of donation funds, providing a financial statement, selling equipment purchased etc. was never raised by the team members in the months before the DXpedition started. This was only raised by the team members once the DXpedition was almost completed.

HARAOA has fulfilled it's obligations to all our sponsors donation requirements.

None of our sponsorship requirements mention anything around providing the financials of the DXpedition or surplus funds to be paid to team members.

In absence of any prior agreement the team members are trying to discredit HARAOA and the successful ZL9HR operation to get their own way. Using their own words "pressure us to change our decision".

Tommy VK2IR and John VK3YP
ZL9HR Team Leaders and organisers.

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5B4AIZ
Member

Posts: 8




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« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2013, 01:19:04 AM »

Having promised the Ham Community full details of the financials the Team Leaders are now declaring there will be no publication of any financial details. Having seen this proof of their lying how can their claims of no discussions, verbal agreements etc with the group wrt financial reconciliations have any credibility? Those two really do have the hides of elephants, they have be found out and condemned by their peers but continue to postulate

We may not be able to assist the team to recover what is rightfully theirs but we can thank them for bringing this issue into the public domain and at the same time putting an end to HARAOA, and for the future,  any similar undesirable organisations who would defraud donors and cheat those  contributing willing volunteers who are the very ones that make an expedition successful.

It is my intention to nominate VK2IR and VK3YP for election to 'THE HALL OF SHAME' along with Gus Browning, Danny Weil and of course Romeo Stepenko. That is the type of company they would feel comfortable with. I am certain there will be no shortage of Seconders to that proposal. Oh -- and something else - whenever VK2IR calls me in a contest he will not be getting my multiplier.

73 Brian 5B4AIZ / C4Z.
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WL7E
Member

Posts: 7




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« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2013, 01:41:43 AM »

Hasn't anyone made the connection between VK3FY (DX0DX) and HARAOA yet?

http://www.haraoa.com/2010/04/newly-elected-comittee-for-2010-2011.html

There is a new current Secretary. However in my experience with ham radio clubs it is the Secretary that handles the correspondence, not the Treasurer.

Birds of a feather flock together comes to my mind. At least this time VK2IR's name/call has been put on paper so to speak. And to think they honestly thought they were a contender for Dxpedition of the Year. I seriously doubt they are ever able to mount a serious dxpedition again not to mention if they do go somewhere will anyone even call them.

I would vote them for President and Treasurer of the DX Hall of Shame without hesitation.
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AF3Y
Member

Posts: 3698




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« Reply #118 on: January 18, 2013, 04:42:53 AM »

Just wondering, how can a non profit organization be allowed to make a profit on a venture? (IF they did actually make a profit)

Someone above noted Gus Browning.  I worked for Gus at his radio station, WORG, in Orangeburg, SC. Gus was a great guy.  Not sure why he would be in the "Hall of Shame"........

73, Gene AF3Y
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W5JON
Member

Posts: 161




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« Reply #119 on: January 18, 2013, 05:35:39 AM »

None of our sponsorship requirements mention anything around providing the financials of the DXpedition or surplus funds to be paid to team members.

In absence of any prior agreement the team members are trying to discredit HARAOA and the successful ZL9HR operation to get their own way. Using their own words "pressure us to change our decision".

Tommy VK2IR and John VK3YP
ZL9HR Team Leaders and organisers.




I would have thought that VK2IR and VK3YP would have figured out by now that they are in a very deep hole, and would be smart enough to stop digging.

73,

John W5JON

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