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Author Topic: First Look at New Flex 6000 Series Panadapter  (Read 5875 times)
K0OD
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Posts: 2521




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« on: December 29, 2012, 12:55:48 AM »

Just Released... the video that is, not the radio. But it's an actual radio on an antenna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6_nkQtNHEI
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 01:04:21 AM by K0OD » Logged
ZENKI
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Posts: 906




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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 01:43:54 AM »

The speed seems very impressive. It would make an excellent spectrum analyzer. Can you monitor the TX signal on the new flex radio?

Does the new Flexradio have:

Peak markers?
Multiple traces such as peak, average, RMS, quasi peak, peak in 2.7khz bandwidth or the ability to define such traces?

What is the on screen dynamic range? Can you get 100 db on a full screen?

What about the S_meter does it have multiple S-meter standards like Dbuv, Dbm, S units  peak and average?

Anyway the speed seems impressive  almost like a real time spectrum  analyzer, whats the waterfall speed like? Can you see a waterfall signal in 3d or similar.

What happens when you narrow the span, does it get faster with better resolution or is the FFT bin size fixed?

I am more interested in the new Flex as a spectrum analyzer. Maybe there is a VNA option coming as well?

If you can post some videos showing  some of its features  that would be great.
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K0OD
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Posts: 2521




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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 07:42:06 AM »

"due out this spring"

"This is the first in a series of introductory videos."

What is "DAX" shown on the top left?

The video had 130 views last night. Now 292 seven hours later.

Flex has no knobs. Now ops will have to get used to virtually no visible controls.

Can you plant some enlarged features on a 2nd monitor? Like an S-meter.

Notice the frequency reads to the Hz. Another few digits would raise eyebrows.

I don't see any new features hinted at from that screen.

Does it come with that Steppir 4-element yagi? Is it achieved in the software?  Smiley

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KX0O
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Posts: 49




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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 02:05:17 AM »

I presume DAX is Digital Audio Transfer... Likely where you setup virtual audio cables to direct audio to other applications from each slice receiver (jt65hf, fldigi, dream,mixw).

As for features.. The initial feature set isn't complete... I would bet on all basic functionality in the initial iteration.  This radio is a beast for sure.  Probably overdone to a large extent... Which is great.  Will be neat to watch it develop.  If people can take a step back from their prejudices I think they will see a real advancement in amateur radio.. If not that's ok too.  It is up to them to be miserable, cynical, critical, pessimistic...those attitudes won't affect the outcome.

Doc
KX0O
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NI0Z
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Posts: 560


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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 06:39:10 AM »

Honest question: Other than being able to zoom out and see more spectrum, what is it you see so far in this video that makes it so exciting that you don't see in other SDR software implementations?

For example, what I see here is no more exciting than Studio One.

Just trying to understand how hams see themselves doing bigger better things based off the GUI shown in the video.
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NI0Z
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 06:55:31 AM »

If people can take a step back from their prejudices I think they will see a real advancement in amateur radio.. If not that's ok too.  It is up to them to be miserable, cynical, critical, pessimistic...those attitudes won't affect the outcome.

Doc
KX0O

Why is it important that people see this in any other way than they see it?  Honestly not seeing much exciting here other than a wider view of the spectrum.
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KE5JPP
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 09:01:34 AM »

If people can take a step back from their prejudices I think they will see a real advancement in amateur radio.. If not that's ok too.  It is up to them to be miserable, cynical, critical, pessimistic...those attitudes won't affect the outcome.

Doc
KX0O

Why is it important that people see this in any other way than they see it?  Honestly not seeing much exciting here other than a wider view of the spectrum.

That is because there is nothing really exciting to see there - except for people who have not used a real SDR other than Flex and PowerSDR.  The features displayed in the video are just a copy of the features and software that had been available for other SDRs such as the QS1R, Perseus, and Windradio for YEARS now.

Gene
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WA8JNM
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Posts: 170




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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 09:24:06 AM »

I dunno...I have a Flex 5000, and that video may have cost me six grand, or whatever the price is. Didn't want one until I watched it.

I'm trying to explain to myself that this radio stuff is just a compulsion. Maybe I will be sated if I cave in and spring for it. I'm sure that if I own this new one, I'll never want another. Isn't that how addiction works?

:-)

Dave
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 11:07:13 AM »

I dunno...I have a Flex 5000, and that video may have cost me six grand, or whatever the price is. Didn't want one until I watched it.

I'm trying to explain to myself that this radio stuff is just a compulsion. Maybe I will be sated if I cave in and spring for it. I'm sure that if I own this new one, I'll never want another. Isn't that how addiction works?

:-)

Dave

The first step is admitting you have a problem:
Me:"Hello, my name is James and I'm a Flex Radio addict"
Other(recovering)addicts: "Hi James" !!
 Grin

Sorry, couldn't resist!!
  Personally, I am glad that Flex Radio is finally showing some
working software. I have also read elsewhere that they are running
one from their "club station" in Austin as well. Maybe they'll be on the
Flexnet on 20 meters today. It would be nice to hear it on the air that way.
james
WD5GWY
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KX0O
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Posts: 49




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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 11:36:59 AM »

Because you can use that slice then open 7 more slices to do other things simultaneously..you can have several people doing things simultaneously also...all in one transceiver.

I don't care what gene says... That can't be done with the qs1r...  I have one and i know for a fact you can't do it.  Gene pretends you can but you can't.  Supposedly studio one will do it but I have yet to see a tranceiver that it woks with.  I inquired with studio one and they said no...it doesn't work with the qs1r (multiple independant receivers).

So, somebody show me something that can do this.  There isn't anything but I am up for being proven wrong.

I recently sold a 5000 and have a qs1r... So it isn't he pan adapter that impresses me...I am used to that.

Doc
KX0O




Honest question: Other than being able to zoom out and see more spectrum, what is it you see so far in this video that makes it so exciting that you don't see in other SDR software implementations?

For example, what I see here is no more exciting than Studio One.

Just trying to understand how hams see themselves doing bigger better things based off the GUI shown in the video.
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 02:03:16 PM »

You can have up to 8 Slice Receivers open with a 6700 and with an
internet connection(with software support) 8 people can use those slices.
BUT, the big difference is, only one can transmit. Not that that is a huge
deal, but, some people tend to get carried away with the remote operations
thing for multiple users. It's fine for listening, but, it's not a huge selling point
to me. On the other hand, being able to see such a huge slice of spectrum and
graphically see the MUF as the video demonstrates, is impressive. And I know that
there are other "receivers" out there that do the same thing. Few, if any include the
ability to transmit as well. That's why I find the new radios interesting.
If all I wanted was just the wide swath of spectrum to listen to, then I'd go with the
QS1R or something similar. It will certainly be interesting to see how the software
evolves with the 6000 Series. If Flex Systems opens it up to 3rd party developers, then
there should be more possible uses for the new radios. Of course, that could limit people
wanting to pay the $200 yearly fee for software with new features. Especially if the
3rd party developers come up with free or low cost, alternatives.
Interesting times ahead!
james
WD5GWY
   
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KX0O
Member

Posts: 49




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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 02:15:14 PM »

They will never open up the embedded part of the radio but they will release an API and it will easily work on multiple platforms.  I do think it would be neat to configure the embedded Linux bit but I understand why they don't want people mucking with it (support nightmare).  It could espy be often into I am sure, especially if it were a more accessible piece of consumer hardware (ala nslu2, openwrt, iPhone etc).

Doc
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 03:27:44 PM »

They will never open up the embedded part of the radio but they will release an API and it will easily work on multiple platforms.  I do think it would be neat to configure the embedded Linux bit but I understand why they don't want people mucking with it (support nightmare).  It could espy be often into I am sure, especially if it were a more accessible piece of consumer hardware (ala nslu2, openwrt, iPhone etc).

Doc
No doubt at all, that they will not allow access to the radio itself other than thru some sort
of API to develop browser based applications. The real question is how much will they expose
that way? Probably just basic transceiver control commands etc.
In one of the earlier videos that was posted here,  one of their engineers gave a very interesting presentation, he stated that "he" was reluctant to even allow any outside, 3rd
party development. He more or less stated, (in my view of what he said) that he was would
rather have it all closed and not open to 3rd parties. If they expose too much control, then
it could kill off interest from those folks wanting to buy the Software Updates on an annual basis.
Mainly because, others could develop similar features, even if buggy, and offer them for free or
very cheap. That would undermine their control and even some income.
  As expensive as the radios are, I doubt that anyone will try to access the actual OS onboard
the radio and hack it in an attempt to change or improve it. Of course, there are a few out there
that the cost to experiment that way, would not prohibit them from trying!
Won't be me, should I manage to buy a 6500 later on, I doubt I'll try to hack the radio itself!
 (don't need THAT expensive of a paperweight!!  Grin
james
WD5GWY

 
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KX0O
Member

Posts: 49




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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 05:36:39 PM »

I doubt they limit the API due to worries about competition.  I think they will allow as much access as they can without potential log compromising operation.  Most of the software support is for the embedded part of the radio...not the client.  99% of the software is in the radio, the clients are minimal.

Doc
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 06:27:49 PM »

I doubt they limit the API due to worries about competition.  I think they will allow as much access as they can without potential log compromising operation.  Most of the software support is for the embedded part of the radio...not the client.  99% of the software is in the radio, the clients are minimal.

Doc
Thank you! But, one thing you say I do not quite understand.
Quote
I think they will allow as much access as they can without potential log compromising operation.
What log are you talking about that could be compromised?
I understand that the main part of the radio's software is embedded in the radio itself.
But, depending on what they expose to the client thru the API, (Microsoft was famous for
not exposing all API calls in Windows........had to do a lot of snooping) there may well be
functionality that could be preformed on the Client side, that they keep to themselves.
  Just some thoughts on my part. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about the
new 6000 Series as Flex Systems goes along.
It will be quite interesting to be sure!
james
WD5GWY
   
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