Higher Watts on VHF anf UHF - Worthwhile ???

[KC9YAJ]

The one week later update.

As with all the other forums I post to, I do so because I am assuming I will be getting feedback from those who have been where I find myself at that time. This board has been no different, you all have been incredibly patient and helpful !!!

Starting back a bunch of posts I was told HF is the place to be. I read that in others too, and I took the advice to heart. I did sell that FT-450D but had read those posts prior to shipping. As I was packing up the radio, those posts rang in my ears. I was kicking myself, contemplated cancelling the transaction, but that wouldn't have been right either. I went ahead and decided to live with my decision. I investigated the local nets and found all but two are on 2m. So I was sitting here telling myself I made the right decision. Several times the past week I fired up the radio willing working on the computer, just to monitor some 2m. Sorry to report, wherever I picked, those frequencies were dead. Except for the random burst of noise, nothing was coming through. Last weekend I had monitored several of the local nets and my reception for them was quite good. So last weekend proved my radio and antenna work. Monitoring during the week proved there ain't nothing there to hear.

All during this that little voice is telling me "you shoulda kept the 450!!!"

I investigated the Kenwood 2000 some more and sometime yesterday I learned it was first introduced back in 2001. Learning the technology in it was 12 years old really put a damper on my enthusiasm for it. Then I checked how old my 450 was and that technology was about 9 year newer. I also began kicking around a few other used rigs but when I checked specs I noticed technology missing that the 450 had.

Now that little voice is screaming "you shoulda kept the 450, you goof !!!"

Along the way, KB2FCV posted he looked at my home and suggested a wire in the front. I was stuck on a vertical and never consider my front yard. I knew the neighbors would have a heart attack, along with the village officials. But a wire...... wait........ no one notices those !!!      Some form of a wire using all my property is the answer to getting something up and us on the air.

Then last night I am checking the used gear board and there's a guy posting a 1 month old FT-450D. The one I had was almost a year old. This would give me basically a brand new rig, for almost what I sold me other one for. UPS should be delivering my almost brand new 450D soemtime around Weds, maybe Thursday if they're slow.

But back to the VHF and UHF side of my questions. Between your help here and my experiences I am seeing I can receive upwards of 30-ish miles as I am now. I tried pulling in a net from approx 35-45 miles and all it did was break squelch with some noise. So I learned that even if I can hit that area, I am as was stated, an alligator..... all mouth and no ears.

Earlier today I also bought a used FT7800, the earlier version of the FT-7900 I was considering in the first place. I will put up this 2m rig and use that FT-7800 until I can locate the right buy on a Kenwood TM-V71A. What I will pick up on that Kenwood is monitor capabilities for a huge range of spectrum, including 1.2 ghz. There is only one 23cm repeater here so my assumption is 23cm is going to be as dead or deader than what I found here on 2m. If I am right, I will still have a great dual bander. If I am wrong, I will know for sure before buying a rig to work it.     

 

[W8JX]

I investigated the Kenwood 2000 some more and sometime yesterday I learned it was first introduced back in 2001. Learning the technology in it was 12 years old really put a damper on my enthusiasm for it. Then I checked how old my 450 was and that technology was about 9 year newer. I also began kicking around a few other used rigs but when I checked specs I noticed technology missing that the 450 had.

Now that little voice is screaming "you shoulda kept the 450, you goof !!!"

You  are right on 2000 but kinda wrong on 450. While it has DSP, it is a cheap entry level design and mere presence of DSP does not mean cutting edge performance. There is a reason they are for sale used a lot because they are lacking.

[WB6BYU]

But back to the VHF and UHF side of my questions. Between your help here and my experiences I am seeing I can receive upwards of 30-ish miles as I am now. I tried pulling in a net from approx 35-45 miles and all it did was break squelch with some noise. So I learned that even if I can hit that area, I am as was stated, an alligator..... all mouth and no ears.

If there is one particular repeater at a distance that you want to hit, then adding a
directional antenna pointing at it may improve signals in both directions enough that
you can use it reliably.  (Especially if you get the antenna up above the roof.)

In fact, you may still be able to hit the other local repeaters well enough with the
beam antenna pointed in a fixed direction, which would eliminate the need for a rotator.

What I will pick up on that Kenwood is monitor capabilities for a huge range of spectrum, including 1.2 ghz. There is only one 23cm repeater here so my assumption is 23cm is going to be as dead or deader than what I found here on 2m.
 

How much activity there is will vary on the area.  A couple local repeaters are busy most
of the day, while others have only occasional activity all week.  Even during prime commute
time, some repeaters are pretty quiet.

We have a couple 1.2 GHz repeaters here locally, and they are populated by the same few
people all the time.  That's great if they are people you like to talk to, but not if they aren't.
And this is a high-tech area with a fairly dense ham population.

Some areas have a booming VHF/UHF repeater scene, and other places there just aren't enough
hams who like talking with each other to provide much activity.

[BG2US]

Against aa4pb:

The antenna will be far more significant than that amount of power difference so that is usually the best place to put your money.

[K1CJS]

Against aa4pb:

The antenna will be far more significant than that amount of power difference so that is usually the best place to put your money.

I would advise you to read his post more carefully--he did say that the antenna is more important.  His comment about signal overload from a good antenna was made about a common Handi-Talkie.  Those things WILL be overwhelmed by the amount of signal coming from a good gain antenna.

[KM3F]

After reading the original posters replies, it looks like he is putting himself in a fishbowl as a self defeating position.
He says he is not interested in rag chew.
Finds there is not much to 'listen to'.
Want an all in one radio.
Latest technology in a radio.
Lot restrictions and the list of excuses goes on.
What is really missing is the real reason to be in the hobby.
Respectfully, take a new look at what your trying to accomplish for yourself against the reality of it.
I'm not trying to ride your back but to get you to take a different look at the situation before ever thinking about radios and antennas.
Good luck.

[WN2C]

Chip, I kinda agree with km3f in that you should take stock of what it is you expect to get out of ham radio or why or what it is that got you interested in the first place.  I too was first licenced as a kid of 13/14 years of age. My Dad was a ham in the late 50's on 6 meter AM. It amazed me as a (younger kid) kid when he was talking to some guy in Michigan or Ohio. How do you do that? Well I got hooked. I was out for a while and when I came back I looked at the new equipment and saw how far the technology had advanced. Funny when I think about it now, not realizing that it was all around me as I was growing up.  In the form of microwave ovens, VCRs, computers...etc.  As far as your friend who has been out for 30 years, don't let him tell you what bands are for experimenting, like 2 meters. Once was but not now.  Hams are using Laser light to communicate over distances now. That is experimenting!  Did I say they are modulating these light waves? They are!
So think about it. Maybe you and Danae will learn world geography together as you work the world on HF!
But don't give up on the VHF/UHF as this is where the locals are when driving out and about. Check into the local nets. Make some new friends. Have an antenna party!
Good luck with what ever you do and welcome to Ham Radio...it has allot to offer and you don't have to do it all...Yet!

Rick  wn2c

[KF7VXA]

The one reply about the Yaesu 450D being a junk radio, don't even listen to that, it's a great radio. It's not up with the $5000 + radios, but for the price, it's a great radio, just read the reviews, people love them as I do mine. Not everyone has the $$$ to buy the most expensive radio with the most dials and buttons. Makes me think they are lacking in some way unless they are die hard contesters, then you need to spend big money to really have the best success in pile ups. People with lesser equipment make contacts in pile ups also, it just requires a lot more work on your part.

As was stated by so many others, the antenna is the thing that will make the biggest difference. There are so many to choose from. The wire antenna seems to be your best bet if stealth is important. Good coax and a good antenna will turn your 450 into a great talker. Will it be the best in a huge pile up, no, but it will get the job done from what I read you want to do.
I wish you the best, do a lot of research and you will come up with something that will work for you. You can also put up an antenna at about 10' (a wire diapole) and use it for close in work. It will transmitt about 200 miles and get a lot of locals. NIVS is what it's called, read up on it and put it somewhere the kids can't reach it. 40 or 80 meters and about 10 or 12 feet in height should do it, it shoots the signal streight up instead of off to the sides and it bounces down in a much smaller area than a wire antenna put up 1/4 wavelength or more which will radiate in all directions. A beam on a pole that you can put on a fitting that will allow you to lower it during the day and put it up at night when the neighbors cannot see it works pretty good also. Maybe a flag pole with an American flag on it. That can stay up 24/7.

I've always wanted to try a huge square wire antenna up about 40 or 50 feet around my yard, people say they really talk and hear.

73's,  John