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Author Topic: Dedicated RF  (Read 13218 times)
N3QE
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Posts: 2367




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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 10:09:21 AM »

This whole blurb is commercial in nature and until some piece of ham gear is for sale or at least advertised, it has nothing to do with Amateur Radio and is taking up space better used for legitimate posts.

When the equipment doesn't even exist, isn't it more like a bunch of guys who can't get a date just sitting around and discussing what "the perfect girl" would be? As if they'd ever touched one?

Hard to complain about it being commercial in nature when the amp doesn't exist. But I do agree it seems pretty pointless, it's easier for me to be grounded in reality of an amp I actully own (even if it isn't "the perfect amp" that's better than any actual amp that ever existed.)
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4847




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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 10:13:17 AM »

Start talking much over 2 kW, and you have the electricity bill and the supply to consider. At 8kW out, antennas and coax are another world, plus you really need a 3 phase supply. Especially if the dishwasher, washing machine, clothes drier, A/C and cook stove are going to be on  at the same time.

Starts getting very expensive.....
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W6UV
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Posts: 540




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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 10:19:22 AM »

W6UV: Perhaps neutral to some, not so to others. It takes a 6th and sometimes 7th sense to identify what others could read into a statement, and then diffuse that statement before it morphs into an issue.

Perhaps, but things like this can also morph into a larger issue if you go out of your way to call attention to them. Google "Streisand effect".
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KK3AN
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 11:33:35 AM »

Wow guys. Let me start from the top (sigh)....

KA5N: There's no intent (on my part) in making this commercial in nature. If someone asks me a question, however I will answer it (though I'd much prefer this in private email or over the phone for the reason you mentioned).

K8AXW: This will in fact be "for the masses", by today's standards. I personally prefer simple gear / vehicles or anything just as much as you, but to be competitive today, you just can't launch a new product that's viewed (by the masses) as being a dinosaur. In my position, it would be a lot less painful to just roll up $100 bills and burn them. I am working at ways to mitigate the issues you describe by adding as much 'modularaity' into this as possible, because I do agree with your point very much, to the extent that I reasonably can.

WX7G:  Nowhere is it stated (my me) the 2x8877 will be available in the US for Amateurs. Where were you made aware of this? This is *exactly* how false rumors begin and spread like fire. Please appreciate that. It's like what I stated earlier - these are the posts which have a tendency to create repercussions....people could easily take your words to think (and repeat to others) completely false things like "Dedicated RF sells illegal amps to the US market", because that's exactly how your post sounds. Our 1x8877 will indeed be type accepted (of course). Please consider the repercussions of how something you say about me will be read and understood by someone (in a very false sense).

N3QE: I agree. Because this project is taking such a tremendous amount of time, I felt it best to provide tidbits of information / updates, etc as they become available. The general reaction to this is actually very positive.

Dan
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9921




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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 01:31:52 PM »

To address the "power issue", I could see having a 4 or 5 KW amp in the shack. WHY?. because it should last me for the rest of my ham radio life, and then some.  I have an 87 a and use it about half the time on contests and dxing. It will do some 2k or 2.2k when tuned into a dummy load  at max grid current. I typically use it at around 1000 watts when I use it at all. I used to have several ameritron 811 and 811h amps and to run those at max output in a contest would literally cause the meter in the case to overheat, and a friend even had the meter melt in his 811 in a contest. now running my alpha 87 a at 1000 watts all day only makes the case get slightly warm.  so if I want to run a legal limit 1500 watt rtty signal in a high demand contest, then 1500 watts would be just running in its "comfort zone" and would last years and years as it would not be stressed.

If I wanted a "high power " amp to exceed legal limit,  I could always buy a DAVE MADE or SWEET 16 CB amp in the 5k range for much less .  Most of us follow the rules,  its the honor system for ham radio.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:35:24 PM by N6AJR » Logged
N3JBH
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Posts: 2358




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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2013, 05:55:44 PM »

Then there some of us that have wealthy brothers in California just waiting to send  the poor brother a Henry 8K  haa haaa. Happy New's Years Tom
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K0ZN
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Posts: 1560




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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2013, 10:38:55 PM »

One CAN design an extremely reliable amplifier that limits output to 1,500 watts. It is an engineering design CHOICE not to do that !!
i.e.  You car does NOT have to be capable of 200 mph to be extremely reliable at 70 mph !! One does NOT need a "reserve" of 130 mph in the vehicle!
..... Amps are no different.... The "reserve" thing is a red herring/diversion by the sellers. To wit: If someone made and tried to market an amp with
THREE 3CX1500's ("just to assure adequate plate dissipation reserve...") but it could only put out 1,500 watts almost nobody would buy it...... but if it will put
out X2 the legal limit there would be a market for it.

 Lets be honest here.... there always has been, and always will be, those those who have to feed their ego via possession of physical goods....  
We see it daily in expensive cars, airplanes, boats, vacations, mansion homes and equipment in ham shacks. This type of human behavior has been
going on for centuries. This is a HOBBY.   Nobody NEEDS an amp that will run "multiple KW's"; some people WANT an amp that will do that.
Again:  One can easily design an extremely reliable amplifier that will not be capable of wildly exceeding the legal limit. (FYI: If you are an amplifier
manufacturer and don't know how to accomplish this, please give me a call !!  My consulting rates are very low !!  ....chuckle....)
  

73,  K0ZN
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 10:42:39 PM by K0ZN » Logged
W1QJ
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Posts: 1496




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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 04:10:09 AM »

Dan, about  2 months  ago Myself and Steve W1SMS took over Lunar Link after the unfortunate passing of K1FO.  I can view the ham amplifier business as you do because now we sit side by side.  All our units 6, 2, 220, and 432 are all based around a pair of 3CX800's or 3CPX800's.  WIth  the proper  options the amps are rated at 1500 watts for extended service.  Naturally we considered the solid state issue at that power level and ones alternative.  I could see where the departure of choice may be eliminated in your favor if your amp for most likely a lesser price can easily beat out a solid state unit at 2X the power output.  Certainly from a business point of view such a decision is commendable although may not be viewed  the same by those not sitting in our seats.  Lou
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WX7G
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Posts: 6220




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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 05:52:05 AM »

KK3AN, this is what makes me say the two tube amp is destined for the amateur market.

http://www.dedicatedrf.com/

This describes a one and a two tube amplifier for the amateur market. Yes it says the two tube version is the export model. The two tube amp will be sold only to amateur radio operators in foreign countries.

So I stand corrected. I should not have implied that RF Concepts intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to the US market, I should have said that RF Concepts intends to the tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to foreign markets.





« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 06:16:00 AM by WX7G » Logged
W8JX
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Posts: 6482




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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 07:35:54 AM »

So I stand corrected. I should not have implied that RF Concepts intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to the US market, I should have said that RF Concepts intends to the tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to foreign markets.

And what prevents them from going out front door to foreign markets and returning via the back door to US market. In way you can blame FCC for rules that allow this and lack of enforcement.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 07:58:34 AM by W8JX » Logged

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KK3AN
Member

Posts: 40




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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 08:31:25 AM »

Hi Lou,

Interesting - I was wondering what had happened to that line. Congrats on picking that up and running with it. Ironically I was just discussing Lunar Link with someone yesterday.

A couple months back I sold my entire inventory of the 800A7's (all 113 of them) and opted to go with the 8877.

Best of luck, and keep in touch.

Dan
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KK3AN
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2013, 08:33:36 AM »

WX7G....RF Concepts?

Dan
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K0CWO
Member

Posts: 419




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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2013, 08:52:03 AM »

Maybe we should make everything illegal!  I find it interesting that a portion of our society is bent on wanting to limit just about everything. All because a minority of that society willfully chooses to break existing rules, ignores common sense, or defies common decency.  Look at what good the 11 meter "omission" rule for amateur amplifiers has done.  If one implies that a twin 8877 amplifier is designed with other than legal intentions regardless of market, then the same could be said of a currently in production and FCC certified single 8877 Ameritron AL-1500.  There are quite a few certified amplifiers on the market that readily exceed the speed limit.  Speaking of speed limit.  Maybe we should urge our legislators to pass legislation to develop technology to where cars and trucks are no longer able to exceed posted speed limits.  What a wonderful pork project that would be in our already "broke" country.  I grew up in Europe where you just about have to ask the government permission to wipe your behind.  Being overly sarcastic; Is that really what self reliant, responsible, and decent Americans want for themselves?

In the mean time I'm going to make sure that I live my life with decency, common sense, and responsibility without unduly limiting others as a result of my opinions or actions regarding freedom.

I am concerned with a society who's leaders dictate what light bulbs are acceptable for use.  Maybe the individual citizen cannot be trusted to make very basic and totally harmless choices anymore.              
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W8JX
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Posts: 6482




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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »

Maybe we should make everything illegal!  I find it interesting that a portion of our society is bent on wanting to limit just about everything. All because a minority of that society willfully chooses to break existing rules, ignores common sense, or defies common decency.  Look at what good the 11 meter "omission" rule for amateur amplifiers has done.  If one implies that a twin 8877 amplifier is designed with other than legal intentions regardless of market, then the same could be said of a currently in production and FCC certified single 8877 Ameritron AL-1500.  There are quite a few certified amplifiers on the market that readily exceed the speed limit.  Speaking of speed limit.  Maybe we should urge our legislators to pass legislation to develop technology to where cars and trucks are no longer able to exceed posted speed limits.  What a wonderful pork project that would be in our already "broke" country.  I grew up in Europe where you just about have to ask the government permission to wipe your behind.  Being overly sarcastic; Is that really what self reliant, responsible, and decent Americans want for themselves?

In the mean time I'm going to make sure that I live my life with decency, common sense, and responsibility without unduly limiting others as a result of my opinions or actions regarding freedom.

I am concerned with a society who's leaders dictate what light bulbs are acceptable for use.  Maybe the individual citizen cannot be trusted to make very basic and totally harmless choices anymore.              

Then what you suggest is no rules at all and that power should be limited only by what you can afford. There are countries where you can easily do this but then other liberties are compromised.
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AA4HA
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Posts: 1599




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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2013, 09:08:34 AM »

So I stand corrected. I should not have implied that RF Concepts intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to the US market, I should have said that RF Concepts intends to the tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to foreign markets.

How do we know that the power will be illegal in a foreign market? That is entirely dependent upon their laws.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
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