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Author Topic: Dedicated RF  (Read 11164 times)
W5JON
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Posts: 161




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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 09:14:01 AM »

A couple months back I sold my entire inventory of the 800A7's (all 113 of them) and opted to go with the 8877.

Best of luck, and keep in touch.

Dan

Hi Dan,

As you know, no matter what your final product, there will be a "ham" that will tell you he could have/would have, designed/built it, bigger, smaller, manual, auto, faster, more power, less power, use one tube, use two tubes, to this IMD spec, etc, etc, etc.  

However, very few are like you, and willing to put your money on the line. I guess it always comes down to "the talkers" and "the doers".

Good luck with what ever you and your company decide to produce.

73,

John  W5JON  
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K0CWO
Member

Posts: 416




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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 09:16:49 AM »

No.  That is not what I am suggesting.  The existing rules are deemed acceptable by most of us.  Seems to me that 1500 watts is plenty for hobby purposes.  Also seems that 1500 watts has worked for us since the rules changed a while ago.  What one can afford has nothing to do with what one can and in some cases unfortunately will do.  Law and order is a necessary ingredient for most societies.  I am not sure what "other" countries you are referring to but all I am saying is: "leave well enough alone".  

Don't worry about what others are doing or could be doing; worry about what YOU are doing with respect to reasonable law and order.
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3676




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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 09:29:00 AM »

Dan:  Thank your for your time and reply.  You apparently have a different viewpoint on what the "masses" are. 

Modules are a great way to provide repairs and service for a piece of gear.  I recall the first time this concept was initiated.  It was a TV set.  That idea fell flat on it's face.  It seemed that folks felt cheated when they had their modules replaced by recycled modules with "used" components.

They also felt ripped off when they had to buy a module when a simple component needed to be replaced.  Even when bench repair costs were factored in. 

Then they really felt ripped off when modules were no longer available for their 5 year old TV set!

And this is where we are with the present day ham amplifiers.  Modules are great, for the manufacturer but not for the consumer.  Modules become outdated and usually contain componets that are "unobtainable" within a few years.  Then the ham is left with a very expensive and beautiful dust collector.

It's no wonder 30 year old Heath amplifiers continue to bring top dollar on eBay and hamfests!

However, I do wish you great success Dan.  Doing what your are attempting to do would be like trying to eat a chicken leg surrounded by hungry wolves!


Al - K8AXW
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N3JBH
Member

Posts: 2358




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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 10:38:26 AM »

Dan:  Thank your for your time and reply.  You apparently have a different viewpoint on what the "masses" are. 

Modules are a great way to provide repairs and service for a piece of gear.  I recall the first time this concept was initiated.  It was a TV set.  That idea fell flat on it's face.  It seemed that folks felt cheated when they had their modules replaced by recycled modules with "used" components.

They also felt ripped off when they had to buy a module when a simple component needed to be replaced.  Even when bench repair costs were factored in. 

Then they really felt ripped off when modules were no longer available for their 5 year old TV set!

And this is where we are with the present day ham amplifiers.  Modules are great, for the manufacturer but not for the consumer.  Modules become outdated and usually contain componets that are "unobtainable" within a few years.  Then the ham is left with a very expensive and beautiful dust collector.

It's no wonder 30 year old Heath amplifiers continue to bring top dollar on eBay and hamfests!

However, I do wish you great success Dan.  Doing what your are attempting to do would be like trying to eat a chicken leg surrounded by hungry wolves!


Al - K8AXW


Al i not sure i completely understand your post here. First why couldn't you still replace just a component  in/on any module ?

Second , What to say rather it a complete module or simply a single component that the part may or may not be available in the future?

Third , Manufactures such as Flex i believe using this same modular construction / fabrication correct ?

Lastly , Even the the old Heath's  have components that are not exact replacements today but we have and can adapt other part's to them to keep them running. I feel fairly certain Dan could not guarantee the availability of any single part used in the construction of his amp designs would never become unobtainable. The manufacturers design and sell  there products  as market demands. And these demands change over time. This problem would effect any electronic device ever made. I know i never be able to afford one Dan's amp's , God knows i would love to have one but economics will prevent that. However I give him credit if he and his team can produce a high quality piece of equipment then great i wish them all the best in luck in there pursuits.   But i personally see merit in his idea's.... Jeff
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KK3AN
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2013, 10:44:29 AM »

Hi Al,

You're welcome.

Your point is absolutely square on target - and I agree. What I meant by using the term 'modularity' was simply having whole board-level replacement, in lieu of component level replacement.

You are the rare breed kind of guy, which I say at the best possible level. You and I are being outnumbered by the 1000's though...by the teenagers who prefer texting instead of learning to solder, etc etc. This phenomenon only goes in one direction, and although hams will always be more able to component-level repair than the general population, fewer and fewer are actually doing it.

So I must look way down the interstate to try and understand how (and who) will be servicing my amplifiers in 10, 20, 30 years from now, if people decide to do this themselves, and I must go with the manufacturing processes which are in their ascendancy today, instead of those in decendancy.

Your TV set repair example is good. My only thought there would be I would think that today, people are much more adept to the idea of modularity repair in products than in the 70's, 80's and 90's. As you know, it's even gone so far now as to replace an entire device if something goes bad - an example of this would be an iPhone, when the battery goes bad. Most cannot replace this battery, so they plunk down cash for a whole new device.

Thanks for your comments.

Dan
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KK3AN
Member

Posts: 40




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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2013, 11:24:10 AM »

Hi Jon / W5JON,

That's appreciated - thank you.

It's good to read past all the negativity that sometimes comes from discussions like this, because a lot of times it provides good clues as to what people really want / expect, etc.

Dan
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W8JX
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Posts: 5478




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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 11:27:32 AM »

an example of this would be an iPhone, when the battery goes bad. Most cannot replace this battery, so they plunk down cash for a whole new device.

This is to make device non user serviceable to maximize profits and make you by a new phone rather than simply swap battery, no other reason.
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KK3AN
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2013, 11:35:50 AM »

"This is to make device non user serviceable to maximize profits and make you by a new phone rather than simply swap battery, no other reason."

---

That may be part of it - though this is done also to make the device considerably smaller in size. Eliminating a battery bay (compartment) and a cover / door allows the device to be made smaller, and also allows the battery itself to be larger. There are manufacturer's videos available explaining this rationale.

Dan
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 5920




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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2013, 12:39:28 PM »

KK3AN, this is what makes me say the two tube amp is destined for the amateur market.

http://www.dedicatedrf.com/

This describes a one and a two tube amplifier for the amateur market. Yes it says the two tube version is the export model. The two tube amp will be sold only to amateur radio operators in foreign countries.

So I stand corrected. I should not have implied that Dedicated RF intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to the US market, I should have said that Dedicated RF intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to foreign markets.


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K9DMV
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2013, 12:47:02 PM »

Dan - KK3AN

Where Eimac did 113 of the 800A7's end up. I would like to purchase 2 of them as spares for my legacy amp.


Best,


Joe  -  K9DMV
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KK3AN
Member

Posts: 40




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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2013, 12:53:38 PM »



So I stand corrected. I should not have implied that Dedicated RF intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to the US market, I should have said that Dedicated RF intends to sell the two tube amplifier capable of running illegal power to foreign markets.



[/quote]


Dave,

By actually going to the effort of wording this the way you have, you're trying to stir up trouble. I can see that, and so can everyone else.

Dan
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KK3AN
Member

Posts: 40




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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 12:54:38 PM »

Hi Joe,

Richardson Electronics of LaFox, IL.

Dan
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 5920




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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2013, 03:50:54 PM »

I am intrigued by ethics and this thread provides an ethical issue that could be important to DXers and contesters. The ethical issue begins with producing and marketing very high power RF amplifiers intended for foreign amateur radio operators and ends with the consequences.

The branch of ethics that (so far) I think best addresses this is Consequentialism, specifically negative consequentialism.

Negative consequentialism requires that bad consequences be avoided. Two possible bad consequences of selling high power RF amplifiers to foreign amateur radio operators are they may violate their licensed power limit and they may cheat in contests. Providing such amplifiers enables these bad consequences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 04:01:01 PM by WX7G » Logged
N3JBH
Member

Posts: 2358




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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2013, 04:11:37 PM »

I am intrigued by ethics and this thread provides an ethical issue that could be important to DXers and contesters. The ethical issue begins with producing and marketing very high power RF amplifiers intended for foreign amateur radio operators and ends with the consequences.

The branch of ethics that (so far) I think best addresses this is Consequentialism, specifically negative consequentialism.

Negative consequentialism requires that bad consequences be avoided. Two possible bad consequences of selling high power RF amplifiers to foreign amateur radio operators are they may violate their licensed power limit and they may cheat in contests. Providing such amplifiers enables these bad consequences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism


Asinine  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asinine

To me that last post was indeed Asinine
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AJ3O
Member

Posts: 124




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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2013, 04:32:33 PM »

Dan,

Congratulations and good luck on this business venture.

You truly handle yourself like a professional and all around good guy. I feel that anyone with a bit of common sense that has read through the last few pages of this thread will be sending their orders your way.

@N3JBH: You, my friend, owe me a new HT!

Well...... I'll settle for some paper towels to replace the few that I had to use cleaning up the coffee off of the HT and my desk?  Grin
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