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Author Topic: Which Rig? (why doesn't this exist?)  (Read 1945 times)
AK2B
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Posts: 94




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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2009, 01:50:06 PM »

A K3 with LP-Pan on the IF port gives you the same pan adapter software as Flex Radio and a second receiver to boot. It is a fantastic combination with point and click tuning as well as the use of all of those filters.

"qsk is for the most part overrated"

I don't think so. It takes some getting used to but is not a bad thing to learn while you are improving your cw skills. Many hams find it distracting and leave it at that without putting in the extra effort. It will, at the very least, keep you from transmitting over DX when they start calling someone else. Very few times have I used it to during a qso except while working someone I know - then, it's fun.

Tom, ak2b

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AH6GI
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Posts: 60




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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2009, 04:50:41 PM »

"I don't think so. It takes some getting used to but is not a bad thing to learn while you are improving your cw skills."

That's me.  I was building my skills but got pretty sick a couple years ago.  I'm ready to try again.  

When I got my IC-720A (bought it new), they sold it as 90% QSK.  It's not.   I operated a 765 at an events station.  It's better than the 720A but it's not a Ten-Tec.  I've keyed Ten-Tec's at hamfests and they sound like keying a code practice oscillator while listening to the band.

That's the experience I want.  

My fingers might not be up to this.  I've got nerve and joint problems but then again, working them might help loosen them up.

I use IAMBIC-B and squeeze key a Brown Bros. BTL, so I think with a year's practice I might be OK.  

I don't have to be that tight with the dollar but it's a matter of principal.  These are hard times.  I have no business paying too much for anything.  I could buy BOTH a Ten Tec Jupiter and an ICOM IC-7200.  That's about $3K?  Pull that out of savings.  Done.

That's not right.  I have a friend who sends $500/month to the local food bank.  I know others who are doing similar acts of charity; one sent $5,000 to the heating fund this winter and is about to donate $2,000 to the battered women's shelter.

I'm going as low cost as possible.  This is a hobby.  Part of the fun for me is learning, building my operating skills, part of the fun is doing it low cost, within budget, but getting quality.

de ah6gi/4


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W9OY
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Posts: 1282


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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 05:15:05 AM »

lemme see K-3 with a couple filters antenna tune  plus the modules for LPAN etc  about 2600 as a kit or 2800 assempled  plus shipping

LPAN 200 to 250 including shipping

sound card for LPAN 100-150 plus shipping

You still need a good computer to run the LPAN

Add all that up its about 3200 and the K-3 isn't even close to being loaded.  You could spend another 1500 adding second receiver more filters bandpass filters etc.  Heck you could put over 1000 bux just into filters alone in this radio.

I thought he wanted a cheaper alternative?

Flex 3K does everything this not loaded basic k-3 with 2 filters the I/O board and the antenna tuner does and a whole lot smaller and less than half the price, including the antenna tuner.  The performance of the F3K is as good if not better given only 2 filters

If you want a K-3 killer buy a F5K.  For less than a loaded K-3 you can do full duplex QSK, and you will have a much better front end within a 150hz bandwidth, since the K-3 tends to fall apart once you get inside the roofing filter.  Here is a shot made by a russian ham who put 2 strong signals (-30dBm or 30 over S-9) in the passband of a F5K and a K3 a IC7800 and a Pro2

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Pe8UxXpb6nI/SZ3Yp6Bo7gI/AAAAAAAAAB8/zjXiQNWD4M0/s1600-h/IMD1.jpg

You will note all the IMD in the K-3's pass band once you get inside the roofing filter.

Here is what you get when you go to S9 +50, this one will raise your hair!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Pe8UxXpb6nI/SZ3ZFlCu2rI/AAAAAAAAACE/lxEmbwwJJSA/s1600-h/IMD3.jpg

The IMD performance of the F3K will be a few dB worse than the F5K but it will still be basically the same as the F5K  Even the LPAN is degraded by the K3 when it is connected to the K3

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Pe8UxXpb6nI/SbD8zlkEhQI/AAAAAAAAAK0/DR2SpUUdzGg/s1600-h/ScreenShot044.jpg

the top shot is the LPAN alone and the bottom shot is the LPAN connected to the K-3  Note the hump at the base.  

If you buy a F5K you can have 2 receivers, SO2R in a box AND still get off cheaper than a loaded K-3

see my blog  w9oy-sdr.blogspot.com for more details  

73  W9OY
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N3QE
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Posts: 2029




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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 06:38:13 AM »

You know, I honestly don't know if the original post is a troll or not.

Older Ten-Tec radios work just fine. Ten-Tec has truly extraordinary support for their older radios in terms of repair and parts. Not that they need all that much repair... my Ten-Tec Triton IV has never once been sent out for repairs in 30 years and I don't see why it would have to be, ever.

I see no problem at all with buying a used rig. I've been a ham for a third of a century and never once have I bought a new rig.

Most of the "broken" radios you name were squarely aimed at the SSB market and yeah, aren't that good on CW. Others here are telling you that you have to buy all these narrow filters and IMHO they are nice, especially for contest conditions, but hardly necessary most of the time.

If you want to spend a trivial amount of money on a used CW rig, I highly recommend the Heath HW-16. It's QSK is even better than a K3 or a Ten-Tec. And I know... I own several Ten-Tecs. They're good, but nothing that shares the IF between TX and RX can be as good for QSK as the simplicity of the HW-16 (essentially independent CW TX and RX in the same box.) I cannot emphasize enough how joyous it is to use the HW-16.
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N9GXA
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Posts: 119




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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 07:47:58 AM »

> next 15 wpm qso
> just try to run real qsk
> see how fast the other op sends cul om tnx fer the qso

  Curiosity is getting to me, here. Or I don't understand running real qsk:

  Why would the other op quickly send cul om ....etc?
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N3QE
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Posts: 2029




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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 09:00:11 AM »

I think the "cul om tnx" comment on running "full qsk" was not a slam against QSK, but a slam on defective keying.

How some brands/models of radios mis-implement full QSK is hardly a good reason to avoid the setups that do QSK right.

It is unfortunately true there's a good chunk of defective keying out there... some in the rig, some in the amp, some in the connection between rig and amp, but in any event the TX op is fully responsible.
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N9GXA
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Posts: 119




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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 09:04:32 AM »

I think I understand now. Thank you...
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AH6GI
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Posts: 60




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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 04:45:04 AM »

"Most of the "broken" radios you name were squarely aimed at the SSB market and yeah, aren't that good on CW."

Over the last 10, 15 years, I've been buying those stray cats 'n dogs off ebay and at hamfests.  For the fun of it, I've been fixing and cleaning them.  I've got them mostly working but I'm not done with them yet. I want to bring them to as close to new as possible.

The Signal/One CX7A should be a good CW rig.  I need to finish working on the power amp.  Everything else works.  It is too big to operate mobile or portable.

"If you want to spend a trivial amount of money on a used CW rig, I highly recommend the Heath HW-16. It's QSK is even better than a K3 or a Ten-Tec."

The goal, which might be unobtainable, is a very good, very small radio that does it all, or as much of "all" as possible.

One of the "all"s is QSK, Ten-tec/Elecraft grade QSK.  As I said, I was just about to order an Argo V when they discontinued it.

An HW-16 would be a "second" rig to a primary that I'd use for SWL'ing, SSB, and digital.  

If I allow 2 radios for portable/mobile, then an older Ten-tec (Triton IV digital) or an Elecraft K1 is a possibility.

Part of my dream is to roam the country in a small camper van, operate from campgrounds, while away the evenings (and mornings) on CW or PSK31, see the country at my own pace.  

I couldn't take, say, the 75S1 and HT-37/SB-200 with me.  A Ten-Tec Jupiter is just on the edge of fitting in the space, weight, footprint budget.

de ah6gi/4  
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W8ZNX
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Posts: 1




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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 01:00:25 PM »

re " cul om tnx "
means what i said

and i don't mean not beeing able to handle
qsk because of distraction of hearing
the band noise or whats happening on the freq
between letters or faster

i mean beeing able to handle
having a conversation qsk

sure most modern and many older rigs
have qsk
yes the HW-16 was an amazing little radio

how often do you find yourself
in contact with a op that simply MUST
send your call their call
at the start and end of each transmission

i mean its as if 99% of all rag chew ops

( most of my cw work is rag chew )

are stuck with a 2nd class 1949 lash up

( i can run qsk with my 30's lash up )

send their call your call
so the other op
can get ready to throw the three switches
to go from receive to transmit

heck try this
call cq
get a call from another station
do the simple basic hello
u know rst qth name
then send BK
don't send their call your call and K

just send BK

see how often you can count to ten or more
wating for the other op to pick up
on the fact you turned it over to them
with a BK
some ops don't
they will sit their waiting for their call your call

what if you simply stoped sending
next 15 to 20 wpm rag chew contact
just try realy using qsk

see what happens

even the way we send cq
is as if we were still using 3 switches
to go from transmit to receive

this is what i mean by qsk beeing
so overrated
most ops never realy use qsk
even if their rig does qsk

most of the time only ops that realy use
qsk are contesters and dx ers

heck even at that the vox on a old TR-4CWrit
is good enought for 99.9% of all cw work

mac







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AH6GI
Member

Posts: 60




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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 02:59:44 PM »

Good points, mac.

The reason I want QSK isn't to work full breakin, it's so that I can hear what's going on, on the band.  

If a big RTTY gun comes on, I want to know that.  I like the smooth sound of Ten Tec QSK.

Ten Tec might have an answer for me.  They are offering free shipping on the $99 1300 CW transceiver kits.  Their email came in today.

"FREE UPS shipping on any 1300 series order now through April 10.   Mention you saw this ad either in the comments field on your web order or by phone."

de ah6gi/4  
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AH6GI
Member

Posts: 60




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« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2009, 05:06:27 AM »

"Ron" suggested the IC-7700.  I took a look.

It is a nice rig but too much for my budget.  I'm thinking of scaling back.

I took a look at the Elecraft K1 and the Ten-Tec 1300.

The K1 is much more capable but maybe the Ten-Tec is the rig for me.  I operated 90% on one band.  My old IC-720A will work fine on SSB and for SWL'ing.

Maybe the Ten-Tec sale is the thing.

de ah6gi/4
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IZ4KBS
Member

Posts: 94




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« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2009, 01:31:54 PM »

Forgive me if I just jump into the discussion, but I would like to quote this from the original poster:

> I'm going as low cost as possible. This is a hobby.
> Part of the fun for me is learning, building my
> operating skills, part of the fun is doing it low
> cost, within budget, but getting quality.

I truly share this view. In fact I have got a 20m Wilderness Radio SST, and I'm waiting for a NorCal 40A to arrive. At the end of this process my whole ham shack will fit in a small tool-case, including a wire 40/20m antenna.
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W3WN
Member

Posts: 179




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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2009, 12:09:31 PM »

Contact Stan at Ten Tec (they're on Skype, if that helps) and see if they have an Argonaut V available in the "used equipment" inventory.

No, it won't be a "brand new" rig, but it will be a factory refurbished and fully checked out rig.  

Keep an eye open for Omni V and VI rigs on the used market as well; keep in mind that even though these are many years old and long out of warranty, Ten Tec will still service them, and has most or all of the parts available if you'd rather do it yourself.

If you don't mind something a little older, a Corsair or Corsair II would be a good bet.  My Corsair II is around 25 or so years old, and it still hears a heck of a lot better that the TS-480SAT I won at the Breezeshooter's Hamfest last summer!  (To say nothing of how much better it handles strong signals from adjacent frequencies, but I digress)

GL!

73
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K9AIM
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Posts: 915




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« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2010, 01:52:41 PM »

Get an Argonaut V.  I bought one last summer (barely used) and love it.
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N7DM
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Posts: 671




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« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2010, 02:34:08 PM »

"RADIO" ??   I have one of those out in the garage, a Heathkit portable I built...some time ago.  "Ham Rig"... call Ten-Tec and see in they still sell used rigs. My last Corsair was around $175 as I recall. General Coverage is a good idea, but *I* do it with a GC Rvcr... in my case a R-70. Good monitor rvcr and handy 'in the field', on a battery, with my noise bridge....
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