Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: master oscillator problem ft-980  (Read 3830 times)
WT4T
Member

Posts: 81




Ignore
« on: January 05, 2013, 07:43:03 AM »

                 I have a ft-980 works just fine except the dial readout is off frequency. I put a frequency counter on the board test point an it read 29,999,643, not 30,000,000 as it should. This difference ,is just what the main dial readout is off. There is a adjustment cap on the vfo board to adjust and the 29,999,643 ,was the highest.  I could get, on the counter. I had a 30,000,000 crystal, I subbed for the original, the reading went up to 29,999,857. . I ordered the new crystal from yaesu,today. I don't know the info on the crystal I subbed,good or bad. I checked voltage feed to the vfo board per the Yaesu manual ,all seemed very close to spec.
    Anyone have a idea about this, I think the heart of the problem is a bad crystal, would be grateful for any ideas about the problem.Maybe a part on the board? could stop the oscillator form getting to 30mhz? Have posted to all the Yaesu reflectors with no answers at all.
thanks
dale wt4t
Logged
W9GB
Member

Posts: 2659




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 08:46:10 AM »

Dale,

Every crystal mfg. (JAN Crystals in Floida; ICM in Oklahoma) has stated specifications in PPM (Parts per Million) for the Frequency Tolerance at 25 degrees C
as well as Frequency Stability over operating temperatures.
http://www.icmfg.com/hamradio.html

When an adjustment (C or L) is provided in the oscillator circuit, this permits a small adjustment within that PPM range.  I am not aware of the Yaesu specification, but +/- 150 ppm would not surprise me.

While PRECISION CRYSTALS are available, such as ICM's series of tight tolerance crystals having a calibration tolerance of less than ±10 PPM and or a temperature tolerance of less than ±10PPM
These are HIGHER COST crystals that are not normally found (stock) in production radios, but may be sold as options.

==
JAN Crystals is located in Fort Myers, FL (in your backyard)
SO, you have top technical talent, knowledge and production facilities regarding crystals as your neighbor!!
http://www.jancrystals.com/
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM by W9GB » Logged
WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 619




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 08:16:42 PM »

Quote
I have a ft-980 works just fine except the dial readout is off frequency. I put a frequency counter on the board test point an it read 29,999,643,

My first question is why do you care about a 357 cycle error?  That aside, how accurate is your frequency counter?  Most of the general purpose counters out there are just "ballpark" devices and not particularly accurate.  Thirdly, was the second crystal you tried made for the same radio?  If not, that test means nothing.  Finally, what are you monitoring?  Is it the reference oscillator frequency or the local oscillator frequency?
Most general purpose crystals today are manufactured to a tolerance of +- 5.0ppm so a 30 MHz oscillator would be expected to vary a maximum of + and - 150 cycles, very close to what you are reading.  Component aging could very easily make up for the additional difference of 207 cycles.
If this rather small error is really troubling to you, then I would suggest replacing the capacitors and resistors in the reference oscillator (AFTER confirming that the counter is reasonably accurate) to see if that doesn't cure the "problem".  If that doesn't do it, then order a new crystal.
That said, to me its much ado about nothing.
Tom
Logged
WT4T
Member

Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 09:43:57 AM »

the counter is a Hp and is dead on. This is the master oscillator on the 980. Ordered a crystal from Yaesu today,much tighter tolerances. will change out and also any of the old caps and components in the oscillator circuit. Why worry about the difference, I just like things to work as they should.
thanks
dale wt4t
Logged
KA1BIN
Member

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 02:07:24 PM »

Reminds me of a person who had an old Ungar 4024 vacuum desoldering station. The temperature control was a slide control that was marked with basically 5 rough marks from 0 to 4. He had to have control of the temperature within +/- One Degree F! Needed to know the best way to measure the temperature, I told him about thermocoupled temperature measurement equipment he could buy completely built by 3M, naugh, that wasn't good enough, he wanted to use an IR spot temperature meter (like Harbor Freight sells), that had to be more accurate. I tried to explain to him about how those IR meters work, about spot size versus true reading and accurracy, naugh, he wouldn't have it. The IR temperature testers were much more modern and "thus more accurate", and of course, much "cooler".

So there you have it, imagine the embarrassment and shame that would fall upon you if your digital display was 357 cycles off. How could you ever face your friends and family again?

Also, I discovered that my newborn child has about 357 genetic mutations. I wanted a perfect child, what should I do?

Steve KA1SMC (formerly KA1BIN)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 02:09:45 PM by KA1BIN » Logged
W9GB
Member

Posts: 2659




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 02:50:41 PM »

Quote
Also, I discovered that my newborn child has about 357 genetic mutations. I wanted a perfect child, what should I do?
Watch the movie:  Gattaca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Danny DeVito was one of producers for film.
A number of cameo by well known actors.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 02:54:17 PM by W9GB » Logged
AC5UP
Member

Posts: 3955




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 03:00:39 PM »

Also, I discovered that my newborn child has about 357 genetic mutations. I wanted a perfect child, what should I do?

Name the child Vinnie ??
Logged

Never change a password on a Friday                
WT4T
Member

Posts: 81




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 06:54:13 AM »

Steve
     you seem like a knowing guy,with answers for everything,although none of them has anything to do with the original question. If you had just bought a new IC-7800 and it was out of calibration, would you give a dam? ,after spending 10,000. or just live with it. My question was how to bring the 980 back into calibration, its obvious you don"t have a clue on how to solve the problem just a pile of smart ass comments.
     How about a comment on how to fix the problem?   I didn't think so.
dale wt4t
Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 07:22:47 AM »

Steve
     you seem like a knowing guy,with answers for everything,although none of them has anything to do with the original question. If you had just bought a new IC-7800 and it was out of calibration, would you give a dam? ,after spending 10,000. or just live with it. My question was how to bring the 980 back into calibration, its obvious you don"t have a clue on how to solve the problem just a pile of smart ass comments.
     How about a comment on how to fix the problem?   I didn't think so.
dale wt4t

They are trying to tell you that it is not a problem, that the thing is likely within published specs for the stock master oscillator. 

Logged
KA1BIN
Member

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 10:49:36 AM »

Steve
     you seem like a knowing guy,with answers for everything,although none of them has anything to do with the original question. If you had just bought a new IC-7800 and it was out of calibration, would you give a dam? ,after spending 10,000. or just live with it. My question was how to bring the 980 back into calibration, its obvious you don"t have a clue on how to solve the problem just a pile of smart ass comments.
     How about a comment on how to fix the problem?   I didn't think so.
dale wt4t

Ok you're so smart, your wonderful HP counter which is the most acccurate in the world. How and when was it last calibrated? Was it calibrated to NIST FIRST LEVEL STANDARDS? For this I believe (other hams please help me out), you have to send it to a NIST lab and pay a few thousands dollars. Every other certification lab is using a secondary standard traceable to NIST. Maybe you can learn from companies who have to do just that with their measurement equipment.

You remind me of people who leave reviews at Best Buy and Walmart on their LCD tv, that their LCD tv has 5 visible missing pixels out of 2,073,600, they are angry and demand that they be supplied with a flat screen that has absolutely NO BAD pixels. Their limited intelligence and education doesn't allow them to realize how nearly impossible or expensive that flat screen lcd display would be.

My previous point (that you apparently are incapable of understanding) is why would anyone NEED TO CONTROL soldering temperature within one degree, especially when using a low price mass-produced desoldering station....
 Are they planning on soldering wires on the next NASA Moon or Mars Command Module?

Even in your case, you are expecting quality standards that exceeded what was needed and actually achieved in the old Apollo Moon launch. (yes I'm that old, and we did indeed land 12 men on the moon just fine).

When your WonderfuL Miraculous HP Counter is certified directly by NIST, then you will have a possible reason to complain about your minute inaccuracy.

Oh yes, by the way, My brand new car has an inaccurracy on the Tach, it shows about 50 RPM off of 2,000 rpm, my Professional Radio Shack tachometer tells me so, guess I'll be returning my car tomorrow.

As a final note: Even a high tolerance crystal ±10 PPM is going to have an error of 300 parts at 30,000,000.

Doesn't leave much room for component aging, temperature changes, etc. But why stop there....

Why accept a lousy +/-10 PPM crystal, tell the crystal company that you require a
+/- 0 PPM crystal, after all the crystal will be new, why should you accept a substandard crystal that isn't perfect.

You are right, I am not smart enough to solve YOUR problem.

Steve KA1BIN
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:55:47 AM by KA1BIN » Logged
KA1BIN
Member

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 01:27:49 PM »

Quote
Also, I discovered that my newborn child has about 357 genetic mutations. I wanted a perfect child, what should I do?
Watch the movie:  Gattaca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Danny DeVito was one of producers for film.
A number of cameo by well known actors.

I saw that movie just recently, and as old as I am, I thought that movie was excellent. I guess that I am still a "Good" Science Fiction nut.

Didn't look at the closing credits close enough, didn't realize Danny D. was a co-Producer.

I guess maybe I can pass off my kid as Obama or a Clinton, they are both "Perfect Human beings" aren't they, even though they can't hold a candle in the looks department as compared to Uma T.

Steve KA1SMC (formerly KA1BIN)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 01:30:51 PM by KA1BIN » Logged
KA1BIN
Member

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 01:34:44 PM »

Also, I discovered that my newborn child has about 357 genetic mutations. I wanted a perfect child, what should I do?

Name the child Vinnie ??

Ah, cmon', not fair.

I have been racking my brain so hard that rust is falling out my ears.
"Vinnie", ..."Vinnie"
Please elaborate or Explain.

Steve KA1SMC
Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 02:34:09 PM »

Some things are best left unexplained.   Grin
Logged
W9GB
Member

Posts: 2659




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 03:53:06 PM »

Quote from: KA1SMC
Ah, cmon', not fair.
I have been racking my brain so hard that rust is falling out my ears.
"Vinnie", ..."Vinnie"
Please elaborate or Explain.
Steve --

You focused on Uma Thurman (Irene Cassini) that you forgot about Ethan Hawke (Vincent Anton Freeman/Jerome Eugene Morrow), her future husband (now ex) in film.  Vinnie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Quote from: KA1SMC
I saw that movie just recently, and as old as I am, I thought that movie was excellent.
I guess that I am still a "Good" Science Fiction nut.
Rent the movie, a second time.
This movie has "many layers", that are complex and some funny.
Art direction & production design was nominated for several awards.

Frank Lloyd Wright designed building (Marin County, CA Civic Center).
The height jokes are pure Danny DeVito ... who then casts the very tall Uma T.
Uma's character last name is: Cassini.  Discoverer of Saturn's 4 moons and destination for Vincent's mission.
Gore Vidal's cameo, who passed in 2012, is humorous in scenes with Adam Arkin -- who looked more like Peter Falk (Columbo).
The futuristic cars were classic 1950s, early 1960s designs.  See the Studebaker Avanti ?
Ernest Borgnine and Tony Shalhoub (Monk), had cameos.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 04:10:32 PM by W9GB » Logged
AC5UP
Member

Posts: 3955




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 04:13:28 PM »

Please elaborate or Explain.

My reference to Vinnie was, of course, related to the one, the only, the often imitated but never duplicated.......... N4NYY.

A man with more issues than a woman born with one leg shorter than the other and named Eileen.    Grin
Logged

Never change a password on a Friday                
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!