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Author Topic: A Chinese Amp  (Read 20121 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 5883




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« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2013, 08:32:51 AM »

The Chinese will learn this lesson much faster than the Japanese.  The day when the Chinese government institutes similar standards is in sight.  I predict that we will see an improvement in the quality of Chinese transmitting tubes as well as the rest of their exports.  

It would be a simple matter to corner the market for transmitting tubes if indeed the quality was improved.  They're almost there as it is.

Chinese have already learned. As far as corning market on tubes, they have it by default. Not much future or profit in 811's or such as it is a dead end technology. Be glad they make them at all.
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All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2013, 03:06:31 PM »

History or Revisionist History? 

Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 

Marshall Plan strategies. 

Meanwhile back in the states, the Whiz Kids who took over Ford first and then gradually managed to have their "alumni" at the tops of over 250 US corporations, had successfully turned the Engineers, Designers, even the factory workers, into nothing more than numbers on a page, the bean counters making the P and L statements all powerful over issues such as product quality.  Then the head Whiz Kid, who had managed to wrest near complete control over Ford Motors and was made the company President, even without being a member of the Ford family, didn't spend a month as Ford president, but was invited to be Secretary of Defense.  Bob McNamara.  Insisting on using the same statistical analyis of only bottom line dollars and then trying to convert that into body counts and all sorts of other dumb things in an effort to quant the thing rather than listen to or try the advice of those who had actually been to war and won, playing games of tossing out academic sounding numbers ad infinitum and even going so far as to belittle others who turned out to be right all along. 

At some point we American Citizens will have to learn to look within as well as without for the root causes of many problems. 

But I doubt it. 


73 

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N4CR
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Posts: 1668




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« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 04:16:54 PM »

Not to mention how Deming tried to go to Detroit and tell them how to make better cars, where he was sent packing. The Japanese listened to his ideas, implemented them and that led to the Japanese overtaking the US grip on the automobile industry.

We've done some very stupid things here that handed us the loss of our lead on world wide manufacturing.

Eventually Detroit woke up from their slumber and invited him in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Later_work_in_the_U.S.

Remember the phrase "At Ford, Quality is Job #1" ?

Deming.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2013, 05:23:27 PM »

Well, today, Ford enjoys a quality rating that is right up there next to Toyota. 

But Detroit is a wasteland...


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K8AXW
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Posts: 3860




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« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 09:50:57 PM »

WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us. 

The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs. 

This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum. 
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KO4NX
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2013, 05:05:42 AM »

It looks as though they have started the process of putting spec's and some instructions online.  I just reviewed the following link; http://www.amp.co.nf/instruction.txt and they list what tube they are utilizing amongst other things.

73

Rich, AJ3G
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W9GB
Member

Posts: 2623




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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2013, 07:39:18 AM »

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about enviromental control costs.  
Anything above 300 micromgrammes is considered hazardous to people's health.
At one stage in Beijing, the pollution level recorded by this index reached 400. A second reading by the Beijing Municipal Environment Monitoring Centre recorded a level 900 of microgrammes in several parts of the city.


Have you seen photos of largest Chinese cities in the past week (China gov't now admits that have a crisis) -- air population so bad (worst than LA in 1970) that it looks like fog.
http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/15/16523268-chinas-state-media-finally-admits-to-air-pollution-crisis?lite

International Business Times (UK)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/424737/20130116/china-beijing-air-pollution-smog-photos-space.htm

You build a new coal plant every MONTH, for past decade -- with little oversight (corruption), this is result.  Gov't had to shutdown factories/power to improve air quality --
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:44:13 AM by W9GB » Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




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« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2013, 09:37:01 AM »

WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us. 

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time. 

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in. 

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs. 

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think. 

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum. 

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73
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KO4NX
Member

Posts: 179




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« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 10:06:22 AM »

WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII.  


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us.  

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time.  

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in.  

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs.

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think.  

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum.  

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73


Guys, I am really having trouble understanding what these series of exchanges have to do with the Amplfiier. While the topic is one I am sure worth discussing; maybe its best to do it on another forum?

Rich
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 10:12:51 AM by KO4NX » Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




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« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 02:29:07 PM »

My apologies, Rich, I didn't realize we were under a dictum to stay absolutely on one small part of what has become a larger topic. 

Um, was that you we heard policing the bands when that rare DX was workin' the states the other day? 

 Grin
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KO4NX
Member

Posts: 179




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« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2013, 03:17:03 PM »

My apologies, Rich, I didn't realize we were under a dictum to stay absolutely on one small part of what has become a larger topic. 

Um, was that you we heard policing the bands when that rare DX was workin' the states the other day? 

 Grin

I guess I just don't understand what US Foreign Policy really has to do with Amplifiers, this Topic, or Ham Radio for that matter.  While it is an interesting topic, and I do like discussing it, I just thought it would be more appropriate if we focused on the topic of the post. Since the person who is acting as the spokesperson for the amplifier manufacture is not from the USA, he may be scared off by the political nature of this conversation. I really am interested in learning more about this amplifier, and do not want him to feel uncomfortable posting here.

This is not meant to be a policing effort, if you really think the discussion that has been going on fits well with the topic at hand, knock yourself out!

Rich
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ZENKI
Member

Posts: 938




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« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2013, 05:10:13 PM »

 What the subject is really about is that broader Chinese government manufacturing policies and the conduct of Chinese manufacturing companies is really harming  the self interests of many countries. These policies are
harming all our  industries because their business practices are very unfair.  We being screwed by them and some here dont really want to say it and want to talk around the edges.

Manufacturing  competition in the international market place is being distorted by the Chinese. This amplifier is is just symptomatic  of the broader issues of unscrupulous business conduct. If you spoke out about these issues in China  you will end up in jail even if you a Chinese American citizen with an American passport. According to the Chinese government regardless of what passport you hold, if you were born in China  you considered a Chinese citizen regardless of what piece of paper you have in your hand. Ask the dozens of  Chinese Americans who are in Chinese jails because of business deals gone bad with Chinese government owned state enterprises.

We will never get fair trade with the Chinese because most politicians are too scared to take them on because  big business endorses Chinese business practices.  You dont expect a innocent  ham to put his balls on the line causing controversy here. In China he might be offending the police chiefs brother who makes this amplifier or its parts and for these reasons it might be best if he shut his mouth. Many people have no idea how bad it is living in a place like China when you can be arrested for smiling wrongly!

WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII.  


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us.  

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time.  

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in.  

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs.

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think.  

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum.  

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73


Guys, I am really having trouble understanding what these series of exchanges have to do with the Amplfiier. While the topic is one I am sure worth discussing; maybe its best to do it on another forum?

Rich
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NT4I
Member

Posts: 17




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« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2013, 06:42:45 PM »

Boy, this thread is really getting off topic.
A lot of opinions that have no bearing on the topic.......

Just my 2 cents worth.
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W1JKA
Member

Posts: 1714




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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2013, 03:52:45 AM »

RE: NT4I
             Hams are like everybody else,we all want our 15 minutes of fame.
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ZS5WC
Member

Posts: 411


WWW

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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2013, 04:40:27 AM »

 Huh

I recently purchesed a well known Japanese (big Three) Ham Rig from a dealer, and boy!--was I surprised when the box arrived--in BIG BOLD letters on the box it stated -"Made In CHINA"!..
No Brands mentioned.
Possibly due to the Tsunami in Japan?--but then isn't everything electronic made in China?-Hi!.

The whole Linear story looks a bit fishy though-note in one of the pics the 'engineer' bench testing an amp..
he certainly does not look Chinese.. Grin

73
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