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Author Topic: Chameleon EMCOMM2  (Read 12206 times)
N6OG
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Posts: 3




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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 12:40:03 AM »

I have a number of Chameleon antenna products and they work very well.  Great for limited space.  I have (2) of the hybrid bases, the mobil hybrid base, used the V2 and V1 antennas with good results.  The products are manufactured well and I know of know company that is selling ham equipment that has the customer service of Chameleon Antennas.  I have the original version of the EMCOMM2 and was pleased with the results using no antenna tuner.  I plan to purchase one of the new ENCOMM2 antennas in the near future. Smiley
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2013, 04:23:25 AM »

I like ROB1955 too am dismayed that when someone takes the trouble to try to find out information, they get a dozen replies and NOT ONE has any experience with the product,

Yeah, but ALL of us who have been playing with antennas for a few years know there ain't no such thing as Magic Beans.   If it's a 60' wire that needs a tuner to work on multiple bands, then we ALL know pretty much what it is.  And the only real way to make the SWR flat across multiple bands on a wire is to introduce loss in the system.   If somebody tells you he's got a pill that can turn tap water into gasoline, you *do not* reach for your wallet and say, "Great!  How much is it?"   And if somebody has a "magic wire" we know (since there ARE no Magic Beans) that it can't possibly be better than a well-designed and built homebrew antenna of the same basic kind--which you can build for $10.

By the way, a big "thumbs up" for N4CR's advice; a simple doublet fed with balanced line from a tuner is something I've been using, no matter what other antennas I have up in the air, for over 20 years now.   Great performance, very low cost.  And no magic beans are required.  :-)
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N4CR
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Posts: 1672




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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2013, 08:25:50 AM »

Same thing happened with the guy that wrote an article on magnetic loop antenna about 2 years ago : http://www.eham.net/articles/26572

Ah, yes. The fellow who could not be bothered to take measurements but made big claims. Troll indeed.

As was said earlier in this thread. Everything works. The question isn't whether an antenna works, the question is how good it works. And we have a standard for that kind of measurement. So if you're going to market an antenna, you have to use those measurement standards or we have nothing to compare you to.

Unsupported, unmeasured and unsubstantiated claims of antenna operation are commonly found to be no better than any similar antenna once subjected to testing. And both the Chameleon and the helically wound loop fall into this category. No specifications.

Saying you can make DX contacts, that your signal report was S9+20, etc are all meaningless claims that give no basis for comparison. Plenty of hams have worked DX on a dummy load over the last 100 years. Do we call dummy loads DX antennas? Of course not, even if it works.

Get back to us when you have real and commonly understood specifications for the above two mentioned antennas. Until then, we assume they won't stand up to comparison.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
N6OG
Member

Posts: 3




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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2013, 08:53:35 AM »

I don't need some do gooder telling me what kind of antenna to make, buy or use.  I chose to buy the Chameleons, I have four of them; if they did perform well, I would never have bought the second, third, or forth.  Maybe you should try one, I think you will be supprised.  The EMCOMM2 is for emergency communications.  If you want a full blown base antenna try the hybrid bases.  Ham's have complained for years that they don't have enough space for big antennas, well here is a solution.
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2013, 09:12:33 AM »

I don't need some do gooder telling me what kind of antenna to make, buy or use.  I chose to buy the Chameleons ...  Maybe you should try one, I think you will be supprised. 

Well, *I* won't be surprised, not a bit.  I've been making my own HF antennas (for home, portable, and mobile) for over 20 years.  I know exactly what you can accomplish with a 60' end-fed wire, and Chameleon doesn't have any "magic beans" that can make a 60' wire work any better than a 60' wire already works.  It's just that simple.   And paying $125 for a 60' wire with some sort of lossy transformer or resistor on the feedpoint ...  well, again, you can build a BETTER antenna yourself for $10.  But if you want to spend that kind of money for a 60' wire, help yourself.  Can I interest you in buying some magic beans?  ;-)
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N0YXB
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Posts: 320




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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 09:38:02 AM »

Indeed! And after you buy the magic beans from AC4RD, I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.  With a little knowledge, experience and common sense, one does not necessarily buy something to determine whether or not it is a scam.  For example, I don't need to attend Armando's seminar to know that I will not become a millionaire by investing in the latest real estate flipping scheme.
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KH6DC
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Posts: 642




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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 12:38:36 PM »

Carma Carma Carma Carma Carma chameleon..... Grin

 Cheesy LOL  Cheesy
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
W0FM
Member

Posts: 2056




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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 12:59:27 PM »

ROB1955 stated:  "I'm so tired and fed-up of those insane and useless comments that are put on those forums every time someone or a company put a new product".

Unfortunately, Rob, this is not a "new" product.  It is an End-Fed antenna.  Been in use for decades in our hobby.  PAR has a whole line of them that the've offered for years (for a lot less than $125) and I've built many of these antennas from scratch since I was 14.

Here's what I see.  Marketing HYPE!  Some company here sees an influx of new amateur radio operators entering the hobby because of their specific interest in emergency communications.  They market a typical End-Fed antenna as a great emergency HF backup antenna (with a silhouette of soldier on a tank in the background for seasoning) and sell it for a huge profit!

Yes, you are free to purchase as many of these as you like for $125.00 each, but in burns me to see someone taking advantage of an entire new group of enthusiastic, but relatively inexperienced, hams.

73,

Terry, WØFM
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ZL3QX
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Posts: 1




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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 04:30:52 PM »

Hello from Oceania. This is the first time I have seen fit to become a scribe on these pages.
Having been a licensed and active ham for just on sixty years with a lifetime spent in the communications field I consider it time to make a point. In my semi retirement I am proud to represent and carry stock of Chameleon Antennas in New Zealand. Two months ago I ordered my first EMCOMM2's which I considered would last about six months in a country with our ham population. The first one sold within 30 minutes of it being advertised to ZL2WL whose callsign listing I suggest you look up. For those of you who know or know of ZL2WL he is a well respected and very active ham who is fortunate enough to own a very large orchard with his own antenna farm within it.
Those of you who know Wayne will not be surprised to know that after he began using his Emcomm2 my entire shipment sold out to all parts of New Zealand over the following weekend. The order with Chameleon was quickly repeated and Carl immediately replaced them by Airmail. To keep everyone here know their interest was appreciated I started a waiting list. Seven days later the antennas arrived and were all sold from the waiting list immediately on arrival and I now await another shipment.To date I have not received one complaint or adverse comment from any purchaser however I have received many expressions of delight with the product and its performance. To check many reports of their low SWR and many dx contacts I placed one along the top of a six foot high boundary fence only to find 1-1 SWR on almost every band. I sent a quick cq on 20 meter CW and worked three eastern europeans, a scandanavian and a G station with reports from S6 to S8. The rig was a TS-430S which I was servicing for someone and the sceptical should note I sold my Linear some years ago and concentrate on  efficient antennas instead.
The latest news I have for you " gentlemen " is to swear that several Emcomm2 buyers are in fact pulling down their old wire antennas while yet another is dismantling his multilband vertical as well as his G5RV. One fellow said he didnt need all the junk up in the air any more now that he had a nice neat looking Emcomm2 whick was multiband and seemed to work  just as well.
For a length of wire and Carls professionally produced matching device the Chameleon Emcomm2 makes a great antenna which has a huge potential market in antenna restricted neighbourhoods and Apartments.I believe that this is to be the future environment in which the majority of us will have to live and that my age group in particular have had the benefit of large half acre properties and more to erect our antennas in.
Thank you America for someone like Carl Levoy who has a vision of what the future holds for Ham Radio Thank you too Carl Levoy for this great antenna proudly made in the USA.
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ROB1955
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 04:53:11 PM »

Hey AC4rD: would you like to point us out where they’re talking about Magic Beans or Magic Wire? I can’t find that on their website. BTW Go easy on your medications! They can cause hallucinations, incontinence and can also cause verbal diarrhea... Never mind it already happened.

Hey W0FM: What are you talking about “Marketing HYPE”? Where is the hype, did I miss something? Also here is the prices list for your PAR End-Fed:
http://www.lnrprecision.com/purchase/

EF-40/20 =  $95
EF-80 = $125 (No worries people because AC4RD can build that for less than $10)
EF-60 = $85

THREE antennas and FOUR bands for $305 which is indeed SO MUCH less than $125 for 6M to 160M. But be reassured people because AC4RD can build the whole thing for less than $30. We’re saved!!

BTW sharing medication with AC4RD is NOT recommended by physicians. They can cause the same effects as he already experiencing.

This is for our national signer W5WSS which will perfectly fit with Boy George as a duo: What I’m understanding about the EMCOMM II is that they choose a random wire length that is NOT a 1/4 or 1/2 wavelength to prevent SWR swinging on multiple bands. You can read about it here: http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html
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KK4CPH
Member

Posts: 154




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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 06:41:10 PM »

Wow!  This has become an interesting read!  If Chameleon were to offer a 30 day money back guarantee then I'd do it. But if I can build something similar for 1/4 of the price I'd rather do that. Then if it doesn't work, I've learned a $30 lesson instead of having a $125 piece of wire and a box.  N4CR; I like your idea of getting the ladder line and using the copper wire I have.  Seems that if I home brew an antenna I'll learn more about what works.  I should probably do a search for a home brew antenna tuner too.  Thing is most of these "one size fits all" antenna's have some claims that I'm skeptical of... like the verticals that say "no ground radials needed."  I'd just like to read more reviews by those that have the EMCOMM2 and have been using it for awhile.  Not just during a contest. I know from my limited experience that I can just leave the coax disconnected, stretched out across my yard, call CQ using PSK-31 and get a reply. And besides... $125 will buy me a CW filter for my ICOM...

Eric
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K5HTB
Member

Posts: 4




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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 08:39:10 PM »

I live in an apartment  and use the Chameleon antennas.  There are a lot of folks like me who do not have any real estate to put up towers and 120 feet or more of wire.  I get a little sick of the elitist
trolls who bad mouth something they have never used.  It is people like you who will drive new hams away from the hobby.

Travis
K5HTB
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N4CR
Member

Posts: 1672




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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 10:16:39 PM »

Having been a licensed and active ham for just on sixty years with a lifetime spent in the communications field I consider it time to make a point. In my semi retirement I am proud to represent and carry stock of Chameleon Antennas in New Zealand.

Great, maybe you will publish the specifications.

No specs = no money in my part of the world.

Please, rather than more rhetoric about how good it works, PROVE IT.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
N4CR
Member

Posts: 1672




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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 10:32:49 PM »

I get a little sick of the elitist trolls who bad mouth something they have never used.

You should not have to use an antenna to know how good it works. Engineers figured out how to measure that stuff longer ago than most of us have been alive.

It's not elitist to want to grade this antenna on the same playing field as every other commercial antenna.

Gain and SWR specs. Without that, it's just another chunk of wire and a big resistor.

Does it work? Probably does.

Does it work better than a $20 dipole? Probably not.

You see, we just don't know. Because without specs, it's just a big guess. Without standards in comparison, there's no way to shop other than trust, and trust doesn't come from big claims or users defending their purchases.

Making comparisons based on a level playing field and before you put your money down is just plain smart, it's not elitist.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
N4CR
Member

Posts: 1672




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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 10:45:24 PM »

What I’m understanding about the EMCOMM II is that they choose a random wire length

Random means you didn't choose and didn't measure.

The moment you resort to math and wavelength calculation, the world of random is left behind.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
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