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Author Topic: ZS8D – Marion Island  (Read 4912 times)
AF3Y
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Posts: 3695




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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 01:11:55 PM »

Thats great! Grin   BUT............... cant they send someone down there that can work a little CW?  I hate to have to get in the screaming matches.  Matter of fact, I Dont think I will.

Maybe the next one can do something besides SSB Huh.

73, Gene AF3Y

Considering this would be a ATNO, I don't care if he's using EME, I'll figure out a way to work him Smiley

John K7KB

This would be an ATNO for me, but no way do I want SSB.  I guess I'll wait until someone who knows CW makes a tour of duty there, before I work it.

73 de Jim - KE8G

What do you think ZS8D's reaction might be if he read your comments?

Do you have any respect for anyone who can't work CW as fast as you can?

Was there a point in your life when you were just starting out on CW?

73,
Jonathan W6GX

OK, Jonathan, I will answer your questions as best I can.

What his reaction might be? He would probably chuckle, or he might EVEN think about trying a little slow CW just to pacify those of us who REALLY dislike working SSB pileups.

Positively! I have respect for anyone who tries to learn and use CW.  And.... Who said anything about fast CW? I am actually not proficient in what you may call "Fast" CW. (and you dont need to be either. 10 -15 - 20 WPM of good clean CW will get you an enjoyable QSO with just about anyone that I know.) HOWEVER, I can damned sure copy my callsign and "5nn tu" at 30 - 40 wpm, not like the lids who use code readers, or whatever, and cannot copy their own callsign at even 15 - 20 wpm, and totally screw up the works in a cw pileup.

Yes, I remember "Just starting out" on CW.  I did NOT want to learn it. I had to only learn 5wpm to get my General class license, and then I swore that I would not EVER try to get any better. I had a mental block that kept me from really liking CW, UNTIL I got proficient (10- 15 WPM) enough to have a cw qso without getting a stomach ache. hi hi It really was not that hard, and then I discovered that the really good DX I wanted to snag operated down there in the CW/Extra class portion of the bands more often than not. SO, I learned it.

If you dont like CW, or dont want to ever learn it, that is your choice. I have been there. I understand, but I promise you, once you can work CW comfortably, you will not care a whole lot about fighting SSB pileups any longer. YOUR decision. GL either way.

73, Gene AF3Y

« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 01:46:13 PM by AF3Y » Logged
K0AP
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Posts: 117




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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2013, 01:32:44 PM »

I will post a picture of the antenna at ZS8M, and explain how to work them even on the West Coast. He only ran 100 watts.

I will write the blog later today - its one of my favorites and best "fish stories".

73,

Rich
KY6R

I hope ZS8D will be able to put up more efficient/better antenna than ZS8M. ZS8M’s puny signal was not getting through very well at all. I was extremely lucky to work him one morning on 20m which later appeared to be one of the last Qso's before his departure from the island.

73 Dragan K0AP
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KB3LIX
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Posts: 1096




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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2013, 02:14:37 PM »

I don't care if he is using tin cans and string,
I'll be callin IF I can hear him.

Have to strike when it is available.
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W6GX
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Posts: 2310




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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2013, 05:26:35 PM »

Thats great! Grin   BUT............... cant they send someone down there that can work a little CW?  I hate to have to get in the screaming matches.  Matter of fact, I Dont think I will.

Maybe the next one can do something besides SSB Huh.

73, Gene AF3Y

Considering this would be a ATNO, I don't care if he's using EME, I'll figure out a way to work him Smiley

John K7KB

This would be an ATNO for me, but no way do I want SSB.  I guess I'll wait until someone who knows CW makes a tour of duty there, before I work it.

73 de Jim - KE8G

What do you think ZS8D's reaction might be if he read your comments?

Do you have any respect for anyone who can't work CW as fast as you can?

Was there a point in your life when you were just starting out on CW?

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Jonathan,
I most certainly do have respect for someone who doesn't know CW or refuses to work CW, or works it faster or slower than me, just as I hope folks would have respect for me only wishing to work CW!  And how is my comment a slam to ZS1BCE/ZS8D?  If he chooses to learn or not learn CW, that is his prerogative! I choose not to work SSB, that is my prerogative and opinion! 

That's why I said I would wait for an ATNO when I have a chance of it being CW!  Just as I am very sure there are hams out there that wait for ATNOs when the op is only working CW & they would rather have SSB, RTTY, PSK, etc. 

I think you are really reading more into my statement than there actually is.

To each his own... it's only a hobby!!!

73 de Jim - KE8G

Jim,

Your comments came off to me as derogatory towards the operator.  After all he's trying to do us a big favor by activating this rare country.  Perhaps this wasn't your intention.  This is just my perception.

Instead of shunning this operation you could have encouraged the operator to take on some CW lessons.  You could tell him that there are many operators looking for a CW contact as an ATNO regardless of how slow his speed is.  If you were able to influence the op then it would be a win-win for you and the operator.  This to me is what the ham radio spirit is all about.

Lastly, I have not met anyone who says they don't use SSB and sticks to their words.  At first I didn't belief that you would pass up an ANTO.  I got the answer I was looking for after I checked the logs from a few rare dxpeditions.  My hats off to you.  Just curious, what made you not want to use SSB despite an opportunity for ATNO?  I too find SSB pileups a PITA but I don't have a compelling reason for not wanting to use SSB especially for an ATNO.  I'm wondering what your compelling reason is?

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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W6GX
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Posts: 2310




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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2013, 05:45:28 PM »

Thats great! Grin   BUT............... cant they send someone down there that can work a little CW?  I hate to have to get in the screaming matches.  Matter of fact, I Dont think I will.

Maybe the next one can do something besides SSB Huh.

73, Gene AF3Y

Considering this would be a ATNO, I don't care if he's using EME, I'll figure out a way to work him Smiley

John K7KB

This would be an ATNO for me, but no way do I want SSB.  I guess I'll wait until someone who knows CW makes a tour of duty there, before I work it.

73 de Jim - KE8G

What do you think ZS8D's reaction might be if he read your comments?

Do you have any respect for anyone who can't work CW as fast as you can?

Was there a point in your life when you were just starting out on CW?

73,
Jonathan W6GX

OK, Jonathan, I will answer your questions as best I can.

What his reaction might be? He would probably chuckle, or he might EVEN think about trying a little slow CW just to pacify those of us who REALLY dislike working SSB pileups.

Positively! I have respect for anyone who tries to learn and use CW.  And.... Who said anything about fast CW? I am actually not proficient in what you may call "Fast" CW. (and you dont need to be either. 10 -15 - 20 WPM of good clean CW will get you an enjoyable QSO with just about anyone that I know.) HOWEVER, I can damned sure copy my callsign and "5nn tu" at 30 - 40 wpm, not like the lids who use code readers, or whatever, and cannot copy their own callsign at even 15 - 20 wpm, and totally screw up the works in a cw pileup.

Yes, I remember "Just starting out" on CW.  I did NOT want to learn it. I had to only learn 5wpm to get my General class license, and then I swore that I would not EVER try to get any better. I had a mental block that kept me from really liking CW, UNTIL I got proficient (10- 15 WPM) enough to have a cw qso without getting a stomach ache. hi hi It really was not that hard, and then I discovered that the really good DX I wanted to snag operated down there in the CW/Extra class portion of the bands more often than not. SO, I learned it.

If you dont like CW, or dont want to ever learn it, that is your choice. I have been there. I understand, but I promise you, once you can work CW comfortably, you will not care a whole lot about fighting SSB pileups any longer. YOUR decision. GL either way.

73, Gene AF3Y

Hi Gene,

Thank you for your candid response and your willingness to share your experiences.  I'm totally sold on the concept of using CW for dxing.  I just need to find the time to reach my goals and one day be able to proudly say that I'm proficient at CW.

I know many forums members here prefer CW over SSB.  My only request to those ops is that instead of putting SSB in a bad light, try to say something good about CW.  Publicly shunning SSB could easily intimidate those wanting to learn CW.  I just think that a lot of good could be done if we just choose our words wisely.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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N5UD
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Posts: 783




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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 05:55:13 PM »

For me 13 and 20 WPM sent with a straight key at the FCC office. If code was required, you always had to pass it first. No written, and no credit for it.
All or nothing. Any goof up and a long trip back home. Better luck next time !

N5UD the one and only
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NU4B
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Posts: 2154




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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 06:34:46 PM »

Thats great! Grin   BUT............... cant they send someone down there that can work a little CW?  I hate to have to get in the screaming matches.  Matter of fact, I Dont think I will.

Maybe the next one can do something besides SSB Huh.

73, Gene AF3Y

Considering this would be a ATNO, I don't care if he's using EME, I'll figure out a way to work him Smiley

John K7KB

This would be an ATNO for me, but no way do I want SSB.  I guess I'll wait until someone who knows CW makes a tour of duty there, before I work it.

73 de Jim - KE8G

DITTO! I'd rather get a root canal than fight that mess. At least you get a couple pain pills on the way out the door so it doesn't hurt so much, versus learning words that would make a sailor blush (or used to make a sailor blush... anymore I guess not  Grin)
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AF5C
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Posts: 123




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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 07:16:32 PM »

Maybe he will do PSK so we can all get our canned macros ready!

John AF5CC
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NU1O
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Posts: 2592




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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 10:25:42 PM »

I most certainly do have respect for someone who doesn't know CW or refuses to work CW, or works it faster or slower than me, just as I hope folks would have respect for me only wishing to work CW!  And how is my comment a slam to ZS1BCE/ZS8D?  If he chooses to learn or not learn CW, that is his prerogative! I choose not to work SSB, that is my prerogative and opinion! 

To each his own... it's only a hobby!!!

73 de Jim - KE8G

You are absolutely correct about it only being a hobby, however, the governments that regulate our hobby have decided CW is no longer required to obtain an amateur radio license and that requirement was always a major impetus in getting people to learn CW.

Now that a knowledge of CW is not required to get a ham license it will eventually go the way of Latin and other "dead languages."  Only the most serious DXers will bother learning something which is not required and DXers are only a small subset of the whole amateur radio community. I think we in this forum have estimated the total worldwide DX population at between 50 to 75 thousand OPs. In a generation we will be talking about a very small number of people who are still proficient with CW. I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years there are more people who can speak fluent Latin than decipher Morse code at 10 to 15 wpm with no aid.

I have stated this opinion before, although I can't recall if it was in this forum, and I was labeled a doomsayer or a CW hater.   All I can say is I elected to learn Latin as my high school foreign language and I can assure you if one had told a Roman cititizen that their language would become a "dead language" they would've been laughed at. Times change, languages change, Morse code is just another language.

I am proficient with CW in a QSO up to about 25 wpm and I can recognize my call at 40 wpm or faster in a pileup. I still pull out my MFJ "Morse Tutor" frequently because I'd like to get my routine speed up to 35 wpm and I want to get more serious with CW contesting. I enjoy CW and find it relaxing but I also like human speech, so I use both Phone and CW. I have 222 countries confirmed via CW on LOTW as opposed to 219 using Phone to further indicate I will use either. I just want it clearly understood I am not a CW hater but I do consider myself a realist - first and foremost.

I am just happy that an operator is going to Marion Island and I could care less what mode I use to work him since I need it for an ATNO. I'll even connect my SignaLink and use RTTY or PSK if it means a QSO and I do not like the digital modes!

I am 53 and I would not be snubbing my nose at an opportunity to work a new one solely because the operator isn't using my preferred mode. There are no assurances an operator who uses CW will ever again operate from Marion Island so those who elect not to work this station because he isn't using CW should realize they maybe losing their last chance to work the island. There are too many DXCC entities which are too hard to activate, or may never again be activated, so I will not let this opportunity to work an ATNO pass me by.

I do appreciate those who stick to their ideals even if it means they are penalized as I have ideas I strongly believe in, and of late I have been on the losing side of things.


Veni, vidi, vici.  Wink

73,

Chris/NU1O

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NU1O
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Posts: 2592




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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 11:44:26 PM »


OK, Jonathan, I will answer your questions as best I can.

What his reaction might be? He would probably chuckle, or he might EVEN think about trying a little slow CW just to pacify those of us who REALLY dislike working SSB pileups.


Hi Gene,

I have no idea if this ham even knows the basic CW characters. Do you?  I can tell you this: if I was a new ham with no interest in CW and I got a lot of pressure to use CW I would not be happy.  If one does not even know the letter A from Z, you can't have a QSO with him at any speed and it's entirely possible this is the case with the ham going to Marion Island.

If you dont like CW, or dont want to ever learn it, that is your choice. I have been there. I understand, but I promise you, once you can work CW comfortably, you will not care a whole lot about fighting SSB pileups any longer. YOUR decision. GL either way.

73, Gene AF3Y

I am proficient with CW at at a good clip but I have not given up on SSB pileups, so I think you are speaking for yourself and not everybody who is adept at CW.  I could care less wheteher I work an ATNO in a CW pileup or a Phone pileup and although there are many dedicated CW operators, there are also many like me who will work a new one anyway we can.

I have also found some of the most recent CW pileups to be as bad as any phone pileup I have ever listened to. Many were constantly transmitting their calls even while the DX was transmitting and although we all know the bandwidth of a CW signal is much narrower than a SSB signal they had stations spread out over 15 to 20 Khz. That's as wide as most Phone pileups take up. Why would a CW pileup need as much bandwidth as a Phone pileup?  I often got fed up during those pileups and shutoff the rig, just as I imagine you have during unruly Phone pileups.

My K3 will decode CW on the screen on the face of the rig although it is imperfect like RTTY even with strong signals. I think there are now many people relying on either their rig or a PC to decode CW and many can not even recognize their own calls in a pileup when the DX station goes back to them. You must have noticed this.

25 years ago the technology to decode CW was not widespread and I think virtually every CW operator really knew CW. Many were OPs during WWll. Sadly, many of those great CW OPs have passed away. From the start of the hobby until perhaps the last five or ten years I would agree the best OPs tended to mainly, or entirely, work CW, but I see an awful lot of bad CW operators now and I don't think one can say the CW portion is full of mostly top notch operators as you could when I entered the hobby in 1988.

I got back on the air in 2010 after being QRT for about 9 years and I could readily see the CW bands are not what they used to be. A lot of change occurred while I was off the air.

I think you were licensed in the past 10 years, Gene. I wonder what those who have been on CW continuosly for the past quarter century or longer have to say. Are the CW bands as full of top notch operators as they once were, or has their been a decline in the skills of many operators?

73,

Chris/NU1O

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AF3Y
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Posts: 3695




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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 04:44:01 AM »

Hi Gene,

I have no idea if this ham even knows the basic CW characters. Do you?
73,

Chris/NU1O



Naw, I just use the "Look and Pound" system.  I look at them thar periods and dashes on that ol piece of paper,where someone scribbled em on a grocer bag with a pencil,  and then I show can pounds em out on my ol Junkers German Navy straight key. Thas the way ol Leroy who was a top notch ASA interceptor operator type person showed me how to do it. Ol Leroy could copy 75 wpm while smoking a cigarette, drinking a pot of hot coffee, picking his nose and talking to the trik cheef at the same time. Leroy was one of them thar good ol South Caroleena boys. He dont have much ed-u-cation, but he shour could burn up that ol straight key when he was about haff lit on the southern sour mash stuff.

Now................... Of course I know the basic cw characters. How else could I consider myself proficient at 15 wpm or so?

I think I have said enough. I have not had coffee yet.

73, Gene AF3Y
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 05:06:16 AM by AF3Y » Logged
KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2013, 06:08:51 AM »





Quote
Jim,

Your comments came off to me as derogatory towards the operator.  After all he's trying to do us a big favor by activating this rare country.  Perhaps this wasn't your intention.  This is just my perception.

Instead of shunning this operation you could have encouraged the operator to take on some CW lessons.  You could tell him that there are many operators looking for a CW contact as an ATNO regardless of how slow his speed is.  If you were able to influence the op then it would be a win-win for you and the operator.  This to me is what the ham radio spirit is all about.

Lastly, I have not met anyone who says they don't use SSB and sticks to their words.  At first I didn't belief that you would pass up an ANTO.  I got the answer I was looking for after I checked the logs from a few rare dxpeditions.  My hats off to you.  Just curious, what made you not want to use SSB despite an opportunity for ATNO?  I too find SSB pileups a PITA but I don't have a compelling reason for not wanting to use SSB especially for an ATNO.  I'm wondering what your compelling reason is?

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Jonathan,
By no means did I mean my comments to be derogatory and I am sorry that you viewed then in that light.  It was meant only as that I would have to wait to get Marion as a ATNO when it is activated with CW.  You may have seen in my bio on QRZ, my wife is also a amateur radio operator and she doesn't know CW.  I don't look down on her because of it.  BUT, on the other hand, if she shows an interest to learn it, I will do everything humanly possible to help her along, as I would for anyone else asking for help!  Currently, I am working with & encouraging a friend in his learning CW and his is making remarkable progress.  Why, because he WANTS to learn it!

As far as encouraging him to try CW, as I see it, it would be wasted words as his mind is already made up.  The press release said SSB only, so in my mind no matter how much encouragement (begging) I would put forward, it would not change the fact.  Had the press release said a possibility of CW, I would have been sending him emails pleading with him to dedicate some time for that mode!  I wouldn't care if it was 5 or 50 WPM, I would be happy with either.

I am happy you dug a little deeper into my operating preferences and see exactly how serious I am about operating CW.  In the past, I have forgone several ATNOs because they were not operating CW.  It's not that I've never tried SSB, I just don't like it.  Approximately 30 years ago, when I upgraded to General class, I just "had" to try SSB, so I bought a mic, worked some new DXCCs and found that SSB was really not for me.  I won't get into the details of why I have turned a deaf ear to SSB, but will simply say, "it's not for me!"

73 de Jim - KE8G
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AF3Y
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Posts: 3695




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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 06:12:20 AM »

Hi Gene,

I have no idea if this ham even knows the basic CW characters. Do you?
73,

Chris/NU1O



Naw, I just use the "Look and Pound" system.  I look at them thar periods and dashes on that ol piece of paper,where someone scribbled em on a grocer bag with a pencil,  and then I show can pounds em out on my ol Junkers German Navy straight key. Thas the way ol Leroy who was a top notch ASA interceptor operator type person showed me how to do it. Ol Leroy could copy 75 wpm while smoking a cigarette, drinking a pot of hot coffee, picking his nose and talking to the trik cheef at the same time. Leroy was one of them thar good ol South Caroleena boys. He dont have much ed-u-cation, but he shour could burn up that ol straight key when he was about haff lit on the southern sour mash stuff.

Now................... Of course I know the basic cw characters. How else could I consider myself proficient at 15 wpm or so?

I think I have said enough. I have not had coffee yet.

73, Gene AF3Y

OH........ Now that I have had a couple cups... I understand.

DO I KNOW if HE KNOWS?  NOT do I know basic cw characters.

Its all in the interpretation, huh?. Oh well, we ALL need a little egg on our face every now and then.

No, I dont know if he has a basic knowledge of cw characters, but he might, as he is not a newbie
at radio operation, according to the announcement.

Let me shut up while I am ahead (I guess...) Huh

73, Gene AF3Y
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KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 06:32:47 AM »

I most certainly do have respect for someone who doesn't know CW or refuses to work CW, or works it faster or slower than me, just as I hope folks would have respect for me only wishing to work CW!  And how is my comment a slam to ZS1BCE/ZS8D?  If he chooses to learn or not learn CW, that is his prerogative! I choose not to work SSB, that is my prerogative and opinion! 

To each his own... it's only a hobby!!!

73 de Jim - KE8G

You are absolutely correct about it only being a hobby, however, the governments that regulate our hobby have decided CW is no longer required to obtain an amateur radio license and that requirement was always a major impetus in getting people to learn CW.

Now that a knowledge of CW is not required to get a ham license it will eventually go the way of Latin and other "dead languages."  Only the most serious DXers will bother learning something which is not required and DXers are only a small subset of the whole amateur radio community. I think we in this forum have estimated the total worldwide DX population at between 50 to 75 thousand OPs. In a generation we will be talking about a very small number of people who are still proficient with CW. I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years there are more people who can speak fluent Latin than decipher Morse code at 10 to 15 wpm with no aid.

I have stated this opinion before, although I can't recall if it was in this forum, and I was labeled a doomsayer or a CW hater.   All I can say is I elected to learn Latin as my high school foreign language and I can assure you if one had told a Roman cititizen that their language would become a "dead language" they would've been laughed at. Times change, languages change, Morse code is just another language.

I am proficient with CW in a QSO up to about 25 wpm and I can recognize my call at 40 wpm or faster in a pileup. I still pull out my MFJ "Morse Tutor" frequently because I'd like to get my routine speed up to 35 wpm and I want to get more serious with CW contesting. I enjoy CW and find it relaxing but I also like human speech, so I use both Phone and CW. I have 222 countries confirmed via CW on LOTW as opposed to 219 using Phone to further indicate I will use either. I just want it clearly understood I am not a CW hater but I do consider myself a realist - first and foremost.

I am just happy that an operator is going to Marion Island and I could care less what mode I use to work him since I need it for an ATNO. I'll even connect my SignaLink and use RTTY or PSK if it means a QSO and I do not like the digital modes!

I am 53 and I would not be snubbing my nose at an opportunity to work a new one solely because the operator isn't using my preferred mode. There are no assurances an operator who uses CW will ever again operate from Marion Island so those who elect not to work this station because he isn't using CW should realize they maybe losing their last chance to work the island. There are too many DXCC entities which are too hard to activate, or may never again be activated, so I will not let this opportunity to work an ATNO pass me by.

I do appreciate those who stick to their ideals even if it means they are penalized as I have ideas I strongly believe in, and of late I have been on the losing side of things.


Veni, vidi, vici.  Wink

73,

Chris/NU1O



Hi Chris,
Yes, unfortunately the requirement of knowing CW has been dropped.  I consider that wrong, BUT do not snub my nose at those who do not know it.  It's the rules and those getting their tickets now have to go by those rules.  I equate it with earning a driver's license... in my day, a person had to know and demonstrate they could parallel park.  Nowadays, that requirement has been dropped and it's called maneuverability, where they have to know how to back up.  In the end, it's all the same, they get their license!

I, too, took 4 years of Latin in high school and agree that it's a dead language.  BUT, it was one of the most challenging and exciting classes I have ever taken.  It made me appreciate LEARNING and I still remember some of it!  So, I guess I have 2 strikes against me when it comes to knowing things that really don't matter! CW & Latin...Hi! HI!

There are folks that believe they must get all the DXCC entities, no matter the mode, and I take my hat off to them for setting that goal and sticking to it.  Then, there are folks that would rather do it their way and stick to it.  If I don't work em all, it's really not a problem, I won't feel any less secure about myself.  I have a few more years on you, I'm 61, so logically speaking my time is shorter to work DX, but I am not going to compromise my beliefs.  Yes, I may be cutting my nose off in spite, but it is my nose.

As far as the decoder on the K3, I have no idea if mine works, as I have never tried it out.  I have two K3s and one is set up for phone and digital.  My wife, KD8CMB, doesn't know CW, so this rig is ready for her operating time.  If she decides to learn CW, I will do what I can to help her along the way.

73 de Jim - KE8G

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NU1O
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Posts: 2592




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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 09:15:32 AM »

I, too, took 4 years of Latin in high school and agree that it's a dead language.  BUT, it was one of the most challenging and exciting classes I have ever taken.  It made me appreciate LEARNING and I still remember some of it!  So, I guess I have 2 strikes against me when it comes to knowing things that really don't matter! CW & Latin...Hi! HI!

Jim,

Yes, but we both knew it was a dead language when we took it. In most schools you had to be a top student to be allowed to take Latin.  I was actually put into the Latin class and had no choice, but I also enjoyed it and from time to time we did learn some Roman History and Culture. I do know even to this day I am able to deduce the meaning of a word - English or Romance - based on my Latin and I don't recall as much Latin as others. 

I also felt I had learned something very few others had when I finished up with Latin, which was exactly how I felt with CW when I passed the 20 wpm test on my first ham exam ever.

There are folks that believe they must get all the DXCC entities, no matter the mode, and I take my hat off to them for setting that goal and sticking to it.  Then, there are folks that would rather do it their way and stick to it.  If I don't work em all, it's really not a problem, I won't feel any less secure about myself.  I have a few more years on you, I'm 61, so logically speaking my time is shorter to work DX, but I am not going to compromise my beliefs.  Yes, I may be cutting my nose off in spite, but it is my nose. 

You have obviously thought this through and are prepared not to work Marion Island. As I previously wrote,  I have a lot of respect for those who think an ideal is worth getting penalized for.  For your sake I do hope a CW OP does go to Marion in the not too distant future.

LXXlll or 73,  Wink

Chris/NU1O

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