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Author Topic: CWGet - Doesn't Work For Me For Sending Practice  (Read 6896 times)
KB1NIV
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Posts: 9




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« on: January 18, 2013, 07:55:59 PM »

I downloaded CWGet and put a microphone near a straight key w/ oscillator. Either CWGet copies code only it can hear when I'm not using the key or copies nothing no matter what setting I adjust CWGet to in the bottom oscillator window. Nor does it matter what volume I set the code oscillator to or where I position the microphone ... no joy.

I set the tone to 600 Hz in the top spectrum analyzer area which is what the oscillator puts out.

I unset 'AutoThr' and 'AFC' buttons on the tool bar.

Any suggestions?

Any code sending practice software out there that actually works?
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VA7CPC
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Posts: 2371




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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 10:10:23 PM »

Interesting choices . . .

If CWGet is pointed to your computer's microphone, and the mic gain is reasonably high, you should be seeing a pretty sharp peak when you send, in the top ("waterfall" = spectrum analyzer) window.

. . . If you don't see that, check the "sound card" settings in CWGet.

Under those conditions -- good signal-to-noise ratio, no QRM -- I would _set_ "Auto-threshold" and "AFC".

CWGet has a tendency to let its speed get higher and higher., in the absence of a clear signal.  You might have to fix that manually.

One other possibility:

. . . Your sending is so bad that CWGet can't read it!<g>

But that's not likely.  A string of well-separated "dits", each dit the same length, should show up as a string of "e" characters, with spaces between them.

.          charles
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20559




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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 05:51:04 PM »

IMO, it's a silly program. Wink

But assuming it can capture the audio signal, remember it can only decode "good" code, and not junque.  If you send stuff that doesn't sound like properly spaced code, it won't decode it.
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KB1NIV
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Posts: 9




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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 03:42:42 PM »

Thanks for the responses.

Sorry about the delay in responding, I've been very ill the past few days but am on the mend now.

Granted, my fist is not good as I am a beginner, hence the need to make it better which is why i am trying CWGet. I had the threshold set too high (the max) inadvertently, which is why nothing was being decoded ... the signal level wasn't high enough to grab CWGet's attention.

I have been able to make the program work now but am still not happy with it. I tried it on some ARRL practice files and CWGET is not getting the spacing of letters and words right and I think the ARRL practice runs are machine generated so they should be "perfect" spacing.

This is what CWGet prints out from the ARRL 12/27/2012 10 WPM practice run. In the CWGet window there is one space, and one space only, between every character but when I copy and paste the text out to Notepad or this posting there are no spaces between any characters. The ARRL 10 WPM practice run is using correct spacing between letters and words. Any ideas on why CWGet doesn't "hear" the correct spacing?

now10wpm=textisfromjuly2012qstpage76=havebotheredmethroughoutmyentirelifeandstilldo.thepointisaresworkisstressfulbothphysicallyandpsychologically.the

I will tinker with the program some more to see if I can get it to do a good job on the ARRL files and then hopefully use it to better my sending. I want to use this program or another one to grade my sending on the fly so I can get instant feedback in improving my sending.
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KG6IRW
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 10:42:16 PM »

I have been using it to see how well I am able to send and at what speed.  It has taken a bit of time to get it to work, though.

I find that the more QRM it hears the lower the ability to decode.  I turn my RF gain all the way down and reply on the side tone to generate the signals to the soundcard and on to CWGet.

Also, I find that I have to get its attention by sending a series of VVV until it starts to decode them.   Then most anything after that I will decode if the spacing is ok. 

I have tried straight and paddles with it and find that I can send pretty well on the straight key when I pay real attention to spacing.

BTW,  I also used DM780, part of Ham Radio Deluxe to do the same thing.  Now that I have a Elecraft KX3, it has a built in decoder, too, so do not spend too much time with one program.

Cheers,

David
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W8AAZ
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Posts: 333




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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 03:27:12 PM »

I have tried using it off the air with my laptop.  Sometimes it works fine for awhile but any variations and it prints gibberish for me. I would have to call it unreliable as a tool to depend on.  I am talking about using all the receiver options to get as good a copy as possible, not trying to dig something out of the noise or QRM. I watch the response on the screen to the input signals.  Apparently most hams fists are not perfecto enough.  That is why the human brain beats this software into the ground.
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PA0BLAH
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 08:53:15 AM »

I tried it on some ARRL practice files and CWGET is not getting the spacing of letters and words right and I think the ARRL practice runs are machine generated so they should be "perfect" spacing.

This is what CWGet prints out from the ARRL 12/27/2012 10 WPM practice run. In the CWGet window there is one space, and one space only, between every character but when I copy and paste the text out to Notepad or this posting there are no spaces between any characters. The ARRL 10 WPM practice run is using correct spacing between letters and words. Any ideas on why CWGet doesn't "hear" the correct spacing?


As far as I remember the lower speeds of ARRL ar not the right spacing. I suppose they sent the character faster, the spaces slower and the effective throughput is the speed published.

Higher speeds are correct spaced.

Bob
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KB1NIV
Member

Posts: 9




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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 06:43:27 AM »

Yes, the ARRL slower speeds use the Farnsworth method of spacing. However, even with the extra spaces between words CWGet only puts one space between every character, including between words. I will experiment a little more with the settings in CWGet to see if I can get it to work properly. If I can't get it to do the spacing correctly then I will try another software package to practice and monitor my sending with.
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N3QE
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Posts: 2135




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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 12:04:53 PM »

Yes, the ARRL slower speeds use the Farnsworth method of spacing. However, even with the extra spaces between words CWGet only puts one space between every character, including between words. I will experiment a little more with the settings in CWGet to see if I can get it to work properly. If I can't get it to do the spacing correctly then I will try another software package to practice and monitor my sending with.

OK, trying to understand CWGet: it turns Farnsworth style extra broad intra-word silences between characters into a space. Because, well, that's how you send a inter-word space. It also turns inter-world spaces into a space. This doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Farnsworth style sending is not commonly used outside of teaching environments. I think you oughta be happy, that it can copy your characters, and not worry too much about spaces. Don't get me wrong, spaces are very important, but the worst mistake is to run all the letters in a word or call together without enough intra-word space.
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KB1NIV
Member

Posts: 9




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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 09:28:34 AM »

The problem is not that CWGet puts a space between every character. The problem is that no matter what the actual spacing heard is, CWGet always puts one space, and one space only,  between every character and that includes between words. To put it another way, there is one space and one space only between words whereas on the ARRL practice files there are numerous spaces (dits) between words that can easily be heard.

As I've stated before, I'm trying to use CWGet to tighten up my fist but since CWGet doesn't seem to have a handle on proper spacing it is in no postion to measure and show my less-than-perfect spacing. Therefore, it has been of very limited use for me as a tool to improve my fist.
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 2135




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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 03:39:23 PM »

The problem is not that CWGet puts a space between every character. The problem is that no matter what the actual spacing heard is, CWGet always puts one space, and one space only,  between every character and that includes between words. To put it another way, there is one space and one space only between words whereas on the ARRL practice files there are numerous spaces (dits) between words that can easily be heard.

As I've stated before, I'm trying to use CWGet to tighten up my fist but since CWGet doesn't seem to have a handle on proper spacing it is in no postion to measure and show my less-than-perfect spacing. Therefore, it has been of very limited use for me as a tool to improve my fist.

Huh CW is not ASCII. It is not typesetting either.

If you send a "regular sized" space, CWGet copies as a space.

If you send a "little bit long" space, CWGet copies as a space.

If you send a "very long" space, CWGet copies as a space.

Don't see the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a huge fan of CWGet, or of Farnsworth spacing. But CWGet behaving as you described sounds very reasonable. And actually sounds fairly similar to how reperferators worked 50-70 years ago.
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W5DQ
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Posts: 1209


WWW

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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 08:35:43 AM »

The problem is not that CWGet puts a space between every character. The problem is that no matter what the actual spacing heard is, CWGet always puts one space, and one space only,  between every character and that includes between words. To put it another way, there is one space and one space only between words whereas on the ARRL practice files there are numerous spaces (dits) between words that can easily be heard.

As I've stated before, I'm trying to use CWGet to tighten up my fist but since CWGet doesn't seem to have a handle on proper spacing it is in no postion to measure and show my less-than-perfect spacing. Therefore, it has been of very limited use for me as a tool to improve my fist.

From the sound of all the replies, it appears (at least to me) that many have not tried to customize the settings for CWGet. Don't get me wrong, I don't think a CW op should ONLY depend on a program like CWGet for copying code (I use my ears as much as I can up to about 20wpm) but I like to use CWGet as a second set of 'ears' in CW contests. Having tweaked the settings over a period of time, I find that I get about 80+% perfect copy on CWGet in contests where lots of ops are using computer generated code. There are NO extra spaces between the characters and I get one space between words. Of course this all depends on the sending fist. If someone has a really chaotic fist, then CWGet falls apart and copies what it can. For contests, I find this isn't a problem since I simply use it to help with fills. For ragchew and a bad fist, it isn't much good.

I'll post my settings later as I don't have access to them right now. Hopefully they will help others get more out of CWGet.
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
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