Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Do you use solar power generation? Any RFI issues from the inverters?  (Read 32363 times)
WA1YCE
Member

Posts: 1




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 10:09:06 AM »

28-Mar-2016: 24 SolarEdge panels each with an optimiser.  S-9 broad spectrum (HF - VHF) RFI when the sun is shining only.  Five months of emails back and forth.  SolarEdge says new optimisers on the way (since Dec '15).
Logged
WM6Q
Member

Posts: 32




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2016, 11:24:51 AM »

I have a weekend QTH in Palm Desert, CA, though now that I have just retired, it may become more full time.

I came out last week to find that the neighbors had just had solar installed. My noise floor on 40-15m has gone up 3 S-units, and the peaks (about every 20kc) are 10-over-9! I have other solar installations around me, but this is the first to cause problems. Neighbors haven't been home, but I went over and checked.

Solar Edge SE7600, which is turned to "Off" based on the big switch in front. I'm suspecting the panel "optimisers", as Solar Edge calls them, are the culprit. I'm waiting to ask the neighbors when they return about the installer, Vivint Solar. Never heard of them, most people in this area use Renova.

I'm assuming when I call the installer that I will get the usual "we installed correctly, and Solar Edge is FCC Part 15 compliant".

Anyone have experience with Solar Edge, or Vivint, or just general info on contacting the installer to see if they will provide any assistance (thought not sure what they can do), I read here somewhere that Solar Edge is coming out with new optimisers.

Thanks for any responses.

Bob WM6Q
Logged
N0WJH
Member

Posts: 13




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 11:32:11 AM »

I have solar panels on the roof of my shack on a metal building the inverters are several feet from my radio  separated by painted metal wall. antenna gap vertical 30 feet away
Terryn0wjh@hotmail.com
Logged
NC8V
Member

Posts: 7




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 06:40:18 PM »

Also considering solar systems as they are being being touted generally here in SW Ohio. Besides concerns about the solar panel system's electronics <generating> RFI, I'm wondering how susceptible to RF energy damage they might be. To wit: I am in the process of installing a tribander w/40M extension atop a Glen Martin Engineering 8'-quadpod on the crest of my roof. All told the antenna will be mounted ~14-15' above the crest. If we go slapping solar panels wllly-nilly across the roof that close to my tribander (no amp--yet--but...), what will the resulting RF energy in the below-horizontal azimuth field do to the system?
Logged
WX7G
Member

Posts: 6993




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2016, 06:40:14 AM »

The EU does not enforce product EMC any more than does the FCC. In each area an accredited lab must test a representative unit. What is different is that in the EU products may be self-certified (a company can submit it's own documentation) whereas in the U.S. a notified body (such as Intertek) must do all safety/EMC testing and submit documentation.  

The EU and FCC radiated and conducted limits are about the same. A unit can be fully compliant yet cause S-9+ noise in the HF bands. I have yet to see a manufacturer add cost to drop the RF emissions of a compliant unit even lower.

I'm building a new home that will be off the grid and so I will be dealing with inverter EMI early next year.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 08:11:19 AM by WX7G » Logged
ZENKI
Member

Posts: 1249




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2016, 01:51:05 AM »

SMA SunnyBoy are one of the better brands, ZERO interference. You can even tie the end of one leg of a 80 meter inverted dipole to their wall box and there will no interference.

The EMC regulation regarding how solar systems radiated and conducted emissions will change shortly. Countries like the Netherlands are cracking down heavily on the sub-standard equipment. This crackdown also included LED lighting. There was a stupid misunderstanding of the regulations. Many manufacturers believed that indoor LED lighting did not have  to  comply. They were wrong and now they all rushing around getting their junk products fixed.

The EMC regulations do not apply to a whole solar installation even though individuals piece of the installation must comply. This  can be a disaster since the combined noise of all devices can cause havoc. These laws as they apply to the whole installation for conducted and radiated  emissions will also face future change.

There is no technical reasons why commercial solar cant be clean. I have measured radiated and conducted emission outside of world class solar installations that can hardly be heard. It is possible if we adhere to the standards and intent of the law. The biggest problem is the fraudulent Chinese labs and products.

The EU does not enforce product EMC any more than does the FCC. In each area an accredited lab must test a representative unit. What is different is that in the EU products may be self-certified (a company can submit it's own documentation) whereas in the U.S. a notified body (such as Intertek) must do all safety/EMC testing and submit documentation.  

The EU and FCC radiated and conducted limits are about the same. A unit can be fully compliant yet cause S-9+ noise in the HF bands. I have yet to see a manufacturer add cost to drop the RF emissions of a compliant unit even lower.

I'm building a new home that will be off the grid and so I will be dealing with inverter EMI early next year.
Logged
KA7OEI
Member

Posts: 1


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2016, 07:24:33 PM »

Having a 5kW SunnyBoy series-string inverter (no optimizers) I can attest to the fact that my system causes zero detectable interference on any HF amateur band (I haven't checked LF) - unless you hold a portable shortwave receiver within a few inches of the LCD.  A friend of mine has a similar 8kW system with two inverters and has also detected no interference whatsoever, even though his HF antennas are above and cross the solar array.  One benefit of the recent-model SunnyBoy inverters - in contrast to microinverters and some other manufacturers - is that they have a limited ability to operate stand-alone (e.g. "island") when the power is out:  If there is enough sun, I can flip a switch and get up to 12 amps at 125 volts (1.5kW) from a dedicated outlet in this mode.  (My friend has two inverters so he can get a total of 3kW in this "island" configuration.)

* * *

In 2013 I visited a local amateur that had a system with about 36 panels, each with an EnPhase M180 microinverter.  The reason that I visited him was to see what could be done about the additional 2-4 S-units of grunge that the system was producing:  The only time his HF was usable was at night, with the breaker to the PV system turned off as either AC mains or sunlight would power them up and cause comparably bad interference.

The interference was not only in the form of a "roar" of mains-modulated white noise as detected with a receiver in AM mode, but also a myriad of (mostly) CW carriers across all frequencies through at least 70cm, impacting all bands that a typical ham might use.  Spending a while on his roof with an inductive pick-up I was able to determine that the microinverter itself seemed to be acting as the feedpoint of a dipole with RFI emanating from both the panels and the AC line.  When I left his QTH tuned in a strong birdie from his system on 2 meters (SSB via my FT-817) and was able to hear it to about two blocks distant from his house.

He was, at the expense of either the installer or manufacturer, able to get some "ferrite beads" installed on all of the leads - a process that required a "man lift" and the "de-installation" and subsequent "re-installation" to access the microinverters.  As I'd expected, this offered no apparent reduction of the QRM for obvious reasons (e.g. over-the-cable ferrite beads simply haven't enough reactance to provide anywhere near the 2-4 S-units of "grunge" reduction that one would need to produce to make a clear difference.)

I know two amateurs with more recent-vintage microinverters (Enphase M215 and M250) that report no obvious QRM, but they will readily admit that prior to the installation of their PV system they had an already-present elevated noise floor so can't make an truly critical assessment - but such reports seem to be an improvement over the disastrous M180's:  A visit to one of those hams to analyze his system is tentatively planned for the future.  Having analyzed spectrum analyzer plots from an M250 system it would appear that either they have reduced the noise somewhat, that they have implemented a "spread spectrum" modulation on their switch-mode converters to mask the individual CW signals or a combination of both.

* * *

I have some SolarEdge optimizers that I was able to get for a good price that I plan to test:  Those devices seem to have a "reputation" for QRM as well - but I also will see what it takes to "quiet" them down using techniques rather different from those described in the April(?) 2016 QST.

As a comment:  When I got my system installed I had to insist on their quoting/installing series-string inverter rather than microinverters.  The contractor had comparatively little experience with series-string and were unaware of the possibility of RF interference issues.  They ultimately did a good job in the install.

If a solar company indicates that their product - particularly microinverters or optimizers - do not cause interference, assume first that they do not know what they are talking about unless they can prove it - better yet, visit an installation that uses the proposed products, take a radio and see for yourself.  

If they aren't willing to work with you, walk away and work with another company!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 09:35:15 AM by KA7OEI » Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!