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Author Topic: On contesting and CW speed...  (Read 1373 times)
DJ1YFK
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 12:52:26 PM »

> When the computer is doing the copying, you're not
> working anyone on CW...the machine is. So you
> shouldn't get credit for it.

Those operators never make it into the top ten boxes, so there is little to worry about.

73, Fabian DJ1YFK
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K5END
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 09:08:04 PM »

I'll probably get burned for saying this, but in my opinion:

<deep breath>

There is a time to develop sending skill and a time to have some courtesy toward the faster operator--such as during a contest.

I've just gotten started in contesting this year, and found it to be a lot more fun than I had imagined. To me it's like dodgeball, only it doesn't hurt, hi.

So my point is, as a *courtesy* I use contest software to SEND the exchange during the contest. It logs the exchange that I type in and sends the response. I set it for the speed I can copy. If I can't copy the runner, I don't answer him.

But for a plain QSL, I've decided it's paddle or nada.
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K7PEH
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 10:20:17 PM »

>>>So my point is, as a *courtesy* I use contest software to SEND the exchange during the contest. It logs the exchange that I type in and sends the response. I set it for the speed I can copy. If I can't copy the runner, I don't answer him.


What a great idea!  Use software to operate during contests.  I think I might finally try contests.  So, I can fire up the software and have it send and receive via computer, log all contacts, and rack up the points all while I am out playing golf.

In fact, I can have those contest calendar web sites as the data input.  It tells my software when the contest starts, the rules, the exchange, and so on.  My software programs in all this information and then starts the contesting 0.01 seconds after the official start time.  I could probably even use my multiple rigs all controlled by the software to operate a multi-operator station, of course all in software.

And, the best part of this idea is that if the propagation goes south on us, we could always switch over to Echolink -- automatically that is.  Or, why bother with Echolink, let's just do the contest over the Internet, software to software.

Sort of reminds me of the old New Yorker magazine cartoon that showed a college lecture hall with an old reel-to-reel style tape machine up in front of the class given the lecture and on each seat in the classroom sat a tape recorder listening to the lecture.  The students were all out playing golf (probably).
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W0AAA
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 08:03:41 AM »

The point has definately been made.  Send the speed you are comfortable with and the more you practice, your speed will increase.  If you would like to hear how fast you actually send, check out this link.  For example, if I set my keyer at 60 wpm and send as fast as I can send, I am sending at a little over 40 wpm.  The spacing between the characters makes the difference. http://www.monkeywalk.com/tech/morsewave/  73, Zed
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K5END
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 04:11:14 PM »

quote, "What a great idea!..."

Phil, I knew I'd get tarred, feathered and torched for that post, but I would've thought someone on your level of enlightenment would be more informed about contesting software and what it does and does not do.

emphasis on quote, "I might finally try contests."

If what you're saying is true, specifically that you have not tried contesting, then it's understandable that you don't realize the erroneous premise upon which you make your post.

Moreover, you appear to not understand the mind of the typical contester.

There isn't really anything of value to be gained by cheating in Amateur Radio contesting. The winners don't get paid, they don't get glorified and for the most part the only one who even CARES who the winner is, is the winner himself.

A big part (but not all) of the contesting purpose and mentality is really about improving ones own skills. One who does not contest does not understand this.

Personally, I could not care less if I were NEVER to win a contest. Even if I did win, I would only benefit from knowing that I had worked hard enough to improve my own skills to a high level. It's not like I'm going to get endorsement contracts like the autoracers and professional athletes do. How many times have you seen a magazine ad for a radio product endorsed by a paid contest winner?

You won't see an Icom ad in CQ or QST with "the 1st place SO CW only QRP NAQP winner." At least I hope I never see the day...

Put another way, contesting is not entirely different than tossing a Frisbee with friends in the park. If someone makes a great toss or an awesome catch, it is done for its own benefit and hardly anything more.


FRANKLY, the contest sponsors PREFER the contestants use contesting software and submit the logs electronically instead of sending in paper logs. A computer bot can cross check all the electronic log entries against each other, find "busted calls" (errors) or "uniques." N0AX wrote a great article about these kinds of contest errors for QST a few months ago.

Reputable contest software does not decode, receive, log nor respond to other stations. It still requires someone to hear the code, understand it, type it in and respond accordingly.

If software as you describe--perhaps facetiously--exists, it is illegal in probably every contest known to Amateur Radio.

If such software exists, any contester who would use it is the same guy who cheats at solitaire or even worse pathological behavior and who has some serious ethical, social and self-esteem issues to the extent he deserves pity but not approval nor social acceptance. He would be the poster child for the society of Lids.

At this year's Contest University in Dayton, they spent a good deal of time describing what is and is not ethical, what areas a gray, and what areas are just plain bad sportsmanship.

Contest software for logging and keying is no different than use of VOX in lieu of a mic key or the outgoing voice message storage feature on a large part of the radios on the market today.

Your post reminds me of a Wizard of ID cartoon where a Hun was being punished and had to write 1,000 times, "Pillage, THEN Burn" (check facts, then flame.)


quote, "Sort of reminds me of the old New Yorker magazine cartoon that showed a college lecture hall with an old reel-to-reel style tape machine up in front of the class given the lecture and on each seat in the classroom sat a tape recorder listening to the lecture."

I didn't see the cartoon, but that scenario was used in the 80's movie, "Real Genius," with Kurt Russell (or was it?) I don't know who did it first.
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K4DPK
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2009, 04:59:02 PM »

K5END....

I think you have me confused with K7PEH.  You attribute his statements to me.

Phil C. Sr.
k4dpk
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K4DPK
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2009, 05:05:06 PM »

Whoops!

I just learned there are two Phils in here.

Sorry

Phil C. Sr.
k4dpk
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K5END
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2009, 05:06:08 PM »

No, I take your point about separate categories as a valid opinion.

I was responding to this:



RE: On contesting and CW speed...      
 Reply by K7PEH on July 17, 2009    
Mail this to a friend!

(My comment)>>>So my point is, as a *courtesy* I use contest software to SEND the exchange during the contest. It logs the exchange that I type in and sends the response. I set it for the speed I can copy. If I can't copy the runner, I don't answer him.

(His comment) What a great idea! Use software to operate during contests. I think I might finally try contests. So, I can fire up the software and have it send and receive via computer, log all contacts, and rack up the points all while I am out playing golf.
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K5END
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2009, 05:24:52 PM »

>I know folks who absolutely can't copy 3 wpm, but brag about the DX they work on (artificial) CW.
To me, there's something a little less than honest about that. "

Agreed.

The sad part is they are being "less than honest" with themselves.

People who "brag" about things untrue do so as an awkward attempt to gain social acceptance. Lack of self awareness does not let them see that they have already failed to accept themselves.

People like that should be treated with respect because they are, in fact, human and not for their behavior. One will do the world a favor to treat people like this with formal kindness and respect. Once the poor soul gets the idea he/she can respect the self, he/she will shut up and world will be a nicer place for the rest of us.
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K5END
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2009, 05:26:54 PM »

Enuff blogging for one weekend.

The local thunderstorm has passed, for good I hope.

CU cats on 80 meters CW this evening--pending QRN.
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K7PEH
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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2009, 05:52:30 PM »

>>>Phil, I knew I'd get tarred, feathered and torched for that post...

Did you think I was taring and feathering you?   I only made the statement about automated software to be silly, not to tar and feature.


>>>Moreover, you appear to not understand the mind of the typical contester.

True, I don't.  I have asked a number of friends about contesting and none of them understand the mind of the typical contester either.  I have involved myself in contests mostly to answer a few CQ TEST calls but I have never bothered to do enough contacts that I would accumulate points.  I think the most I have made was while on a trip to Oregon one weekend I made around 20 contacts on CW while driving down I-5.


>>>I didn't see the cartoon, but that scenario was used in the 80's movie, "Real Genius," with Kurt Russell (or was it?) I don't know who did it first.

That New Yorker cartoon is so old that they used reel-to-reel tape machines in the artwork -- I think early 1960s.  For the movie "Real Genius" you are probably thinking of Val Kilmer.
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K5END
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2009, 11:14:32 PM »

u mean val kilmer and kurt russell are not the same person? Smiley
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