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Author Topic: New to ten meters  (Read 4681 times)
KJ4FUU
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Posts: 162




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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 10:50:25 AM »

What kind of roof do you have? If there's any foil or metal covering your roof, that will inhibit reception and transmission.

-- Tom
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WB2WIK
Member

Posts: 20666




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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 11:40:17 AM »

That's my next step. After I chase down the gremlin in my antenna, I am going to try and contact a club that's about 30 miles from me. I can hit their 2m repeater so I'm gonna see if I can get someone on it. The main problem is that they're mostly active in the late afternoon/evening and I work nights.

Groundwave for 10m is around 50-100 miles, right?

There isn't any ground wave on 10m, and even if there was a little bit, you wouldn't work it with a horizontally polarized antenna. Wink

Local work on 10m is direct wave or tropo forward scatter.  Direct wave is mostly line-of-sight stuff, so the higher your antenna is elevated above ground, the longer it can be.  But tropo works way beyond the horizon, and 10 miles with an indoor dipole is probably the norm.  50 miles is certainly possible, but that's usually achieved by stations using beam antennas on towers.
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KF5PGT
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Posts: 38




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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 12:27:14 PM »

I don't believe my roof to be foil or metal lined. I have a homebrew j-pole in my attic that I can get out around 50ish miles on 5 watts.

After my last post, I did some research. I realized that 10m has almost no ground plane. Since I can get 50ish miles with my 2m setup, do y'all think it possible for me to shoot or the same results with my 10m setup provided that the antennas are of equal height and quality?

I was going to experiment with vertical and horizontal polarization.
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20666




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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 01:37:53 PM »

If you're getting out 50 miles on 2m with an indoor j-pole and 5 Watts, I suspect that means you're accessing a repeater 50 miles away, and not another home station with an indoor j-pole.

In such cases, the repeater is doing almost all the work by having a very advantageous location (usually on a hilltop or mountaintop, or a tall building or a tall tower), and your own station doesn't need to do much.

With 10m, it's very different.  For one, there are very few 10m repeaters and you may not even have one within 50 miles.  Tech licensees are not authorized to use 10m repeaters (but all higher classes can).  So, you have to work other stations "simplex," directly, station-to-station and most home stations don't have the great locations that repeaters have.

As such, 50 miles "station-to-station" on 10m is actually pretty far, and beyond the range of a lot of 10m users.  The exception, of course, is when the band is "open" for ionospheric propagation, and then low power and a dipole can easily contact other stations thousands of miles away, thanks to the ionosphere! Smiley  Problem is, we have no control over that so you just have to "catch" propagation when it happens.
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 01:46:44 PM »

Your dipole is dierectional in more or less a figure 8 pattern. 

It may be oriented facing away from the majority of beacons and other signals. 

You might try rotating the dipoole hanging by 90 degrees and see what happens then. 

A Vertical antenna for 10 meters can be had on the cheap and easy, consider that any Vertical antenna made for the CB band needs only to be trimmed down a bit in length to make a match for the ten meter band.  Antron 99s, Solarcons, even the old CB Ground Plane types, or what have you.  A mobile CB whip with wire radials laid out beneath can also be used on ten, cut according to the SWR readings as with any of the above. 

The Vertical will pretty much have a 360 degree pattern, possibly a lower angle of radiation depending on how close to the ground, and can fit in the same area as the dipole, making for two different antenna possibilities to try working with and learning from. 

Sometimes the old an forgotten CB antenna can be had for the asking...


73
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KF5PGT
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 08:43:27 PM »

Good point about the 2m repeater. I hadn't thought of that.

I got some new coax today and I'm going to make a new antenna tomorrow. I'm gonna try to turn it around abit and also try hanging it vertically.
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KF5PGT
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 08:15:36 AM »

Ok. So this morning I made a new dipole. When I hook it up, this one too seems to recieve nothing. I really doubt I made two dipoles wrong or have two bum lengths of coax.

One thing I noticed right off is that the long wire I was able to recieve some signal with is only hooked to the center of the pl259 and not to ground. I also get a lot less static with the dipole.

So I opened up the radio. I saw two things that concern me. One is a sheet metal shield on the bottom of the main board is bent and desoldered from the board in two places. The other is what I think is a resistor that looks burnt. It's right next to the heat sink and it seems to just be the outer film so I'm not sure if it's as bad as it looks.
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 09:13:25 AM »

I have a homebrew j-pole in my attic that I can get out around 50ish miles on 5 watts.
 Since I can get 50ish miles with my 2m setup, do y'all think it possible for me to shoot or the same results with my 10m setup provided that the antennas are of equal height and quality?

I'm 25 miles from Chapel Hill, and it takes me a 3-element yagi to check in on the Chapel Hill 10m net.

BUT:  when the band is open, you can literally work all over the WORLD on ten meters, really.  It isn't much good for local chat, but you can work all over the world, even from a car.  A few months ago I worked a guy in Australia from a lawn chair in my back yard, on 10m, using 5 watts of output power and a gel-cell for power!  :-)  Now, THAT is fun!   
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K1DA
Member

Posts: 539




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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 10:09:18 AM »

DO  you have ANY gear with a crystal calibrator in it, and old general coverage receiver or whatever, the calibrator  signal from one of those can be fed into your 10 meter rig and used as a test.  Unplug the mike, and turn the rf output control all the way down, you don't want to transmit into the other radio by mistake.  Perhaps a local op has a signal generator you could use.  Check the QRZ database for nearby hams, you can do it by zip code.  What you are going to find is that to do ham radio right, you are going to need a wattmeter/swr bridge and a dummy load to start, and it never hurts to have at least one receiver, even an OLD one around as a backup.  The list of test gear which is "handy" to have is not short. 
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W5DQ
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Posts: 1209


WWW

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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:11 AM »

As 50 MHz is not one of those everyday bands you might consider getting one of those 50 MHz crystal oscillators to see if your RX is working.

Um, we don't have any privileges there. (...... Huh???)

And Ten Meters is in the 28-29MHz frequency range, not 50. 

We do have privileges in the 54mHz 6-meter band, but the OP has a 10 meter radio. 


73

Regardless of the reference error between 10M and 6M, I think maybe you might want to go back and re-read your license manual. 6M is from 50.0 to 54 Mhz, not just 54Mhz and all license classes except Novice have use of it. You're a Extra Class (or so QRZ says) so I would have thought you would know the frequency allocations for 6M even if you possibly don't operate there. Appears I may have thought wrong???.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
ONAIR
Member

Posts: 1747




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« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 03:01:22 PM »

There is local 10 Meter ground wave activity in some parts of the country.  If you use a vertical like the A-99, you could reach stations up to around 50 miles away if they have a similar antenna.  CBers on 11 Meters  do it often with just 5 watts on AM or SSB.
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20666




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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 03:52:46 PM »

There is local 10 Meter ground wave activity in some parts of the country.  If you use a vertical like the A-99, you could reach stations up to around 50 miles away if they have a similar antenna.  CBers on 11 Meters  do it often with just 5 watts on AM or SSB.

There isn't any ground wave on 10 meters. Wink

If CBers are working each other over 50-mile paths with 5W and an omnidirectional vertical on each end, that must be a very "flat" terrain place (Florida?).  It ain't happening here.
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WI4P
Member

Posts: 46




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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2013, 08:52:27 AM »

If you are using coax and installing your own connector I would suspect a short between the braid and the center conductor.  You can check this with a multimeter ( VOM ).

Good luck and 73,  john
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KF5PGT
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2013, 10:42:32 AM »

So I made a big, nasty choke and remade the antenna a third time. This time, it seems to work! I'm getting a lot of signals but I still haven't made a qso, so I'm not sure if I'm getting out.

Guess I need to find someone local or wait for a band opening. In the meantime, I'm gonna make this antenna more suitable for outdoors and hang it outside. I'm gonna try to put it up on the roof. Maybe up in a tree if I can score enough coax.
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K5WLR
Member

Posts: 117




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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 04:54:55 PM »

That's great. I looked to see if you were local to me in NW Arkansas; no such luck. Keep plugging at it. You will soon have your first qso and that will be a precious memory for you!

73!

Will Rogers
K5WLR
Fayetteville, AR Smiley
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