Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Isn't this illegal???  (Read 4154 times)
W8BNL
Member

Posts: 21




Ignore
« on: February 06, 2013, 05:26:14 PM »

According to a website I just viewed (http://www.catastrophenetwork.org/?p=1027#comment-8562) - they claim to have "developed" a "Standardized Coded Matrix for Prepper Communications". Now as I read the FCC Rules - it states:

Sec. 97.113  Prohibited transmissions.

    (a) No amateur station shall transmit:
   
    (4) ... messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the
meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; ....

But these guys have made available their "Secret" code matrix for PDF download on their website.

I posted a reply to their article on their page quoting the above FCC Rules but it is "Awaiting Moderation".

Any thoughts from you guys???

73 de W8BNL - Tom
Logged
AA4HA
Member

Posts: 1378




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »

I would say it is, their intention is to "obscure" the purpose, intent and content of their communications.

They really do not care about Joe Q Citizen listening in on them, they are afraid the 'govmnt will be listening in.

It would be really easy for them to modify this into becoming a "one time pad" type system. (cipher)
Logged

Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
KCJ9091
Member

Posts: 0




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 06:38:14 PM »

VD is a good one. 
Logged
W6EM
Member

Posts: 729




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 07:37:29 PM »

Pactor 3 proprietary source code is not available.  Only one source for P3 modems.  I see little difference between this and P3, yet the FCC looks the other way.
Logged
KD4LLA
Member

Posts: 450




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 08:33:45 PM »

If "the sh*t hits the fan" are you really going to worry about what the FCC has to say?  Of course its illegal, along w/ speeding, smoking in a public bldg, and removing the tag from your pillow.  Why politicians keep enacting these laws for I don't know.  I guess it keeps some of **us** employed.  From my understanding the "average Joe" breaks three felony laws before leaving the house in the morning.  I don't have time to worry what someone does on 14.242 Mhz...

Mike
Logged
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 2275




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 09:23:53 PM »

Pactor 3 proprietary source code is not available.  Only one source for P3 modems.  I see little difference between this and P3, yet the FCC looks the other way.
The FCC's interpretation is that anyone can purchase the TNC, therefore nothing is encrypted with the intention hiding its contents.

Nobody complained twenty years ago when Kantronics introduced G-tor.

That said, I personally feel that all protocols used on ham bands should be openly published and available for any individual or manufacturer to use.  This would eliminate Pactor II/III and D-Star unless they chose to be open.

-To the original question: Yes, the code matrix they propose is inappropriate and violates the FCC regs.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 09:29:19 PM by KB4QAA » Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5884




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 04:13:23 AM »

If the code matrix is readily available for download at no cost, then they're not really trying to 'hide' anything, are they?  The question asked was just that.  Now, if the code was NOT available except to a select few that belonged to a group that it was next to impossible to join--THEN the intent of the code would be to hide their communications.

This question highlights a real grey area in the FCC regs, and as others have said, other freely available coded ways of communications are used on the ham bands--with no questions asked.  This code is simply another one of those.
Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2687


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 06:07:23 AM »

Pactor 3 proprietary source code is not available.  Only one source for P3 modems.  I see little difference between this and P3, yet the FCC looks the other way.

The Pactor 3 protocol description is readily available.  The SCS owned source code to implement Pactor 3 is intellectual property and is proprietary.  You are free to write your own program to implement Pactor 3 based on the published protocol.
Logged
K7RBW
Member

Posts: 386




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 06:39:44 AM »

If the code matrix is published, how is it any different than Q-codes? Like Q-codes or NTS message numbers, it sounds like a way to reduce the bandwidth (or band-length, I suppose) of a message.
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12688




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 07:11:26 AM »

However, there is an easy, low tech solution that allows you to safely communicate critical messages without worrying about them being intercepted. The answer is called a “coded matrix.”

It seems pretty clear that their intent is to "obscure the meaning".
Logged
VE9AAE
Member

Posts: 26




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 07:56:51 PM »

KCJ9091,
didn't quite know what to think of your "VD" reference until I looked at the PDF of the matrix.

Hilarious that someone would use the Coded Matrix code (which is VD) to ask "Do you use the Preppers Coded Matrix", I was wondering if someone were to reply "no" but that can't happen...
there isn't any "no" on the matrix.
There's two codes for "yes" though!
Logged
WX2S
Member

Posts: 689




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 08:17:09 PM »

SI is the code for "No/Not."

SI is also the first two letters of SILLY, which this thing certainly is. For a less silly example, see the A B C Telegraphic Code.

73,
- WX2S
Logged

73, - Steve WX2S.
I subscribe to the DX Code of Conduct. http://dx-code.org/
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 2275




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 11:14:13 PM »

1. Despite the code matrix being on the net, it is not widely known nor accepted
2. They state the purpose is to prevent casual listeners from understanding the traffic being passed.
3. They state the message may be double encrypted with the code matrix, for "Added security".   There is no provision in the FCC regs for secure communications for amateur stations.

By their own statements the purpose of this code is to obscure their communications.
Logged
KASSY
Member

Posts: 165




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 11:01:52 AM »

If they have posted the codes and meanings on a website, then I do not think they are trying to intentionally obscure communications.  They're just trying to save time, which is allowable.

QSL?

- k
Logged
W6EM
Member

Posts: 729




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 06:53:07 PM »

Pactor 3 proprietary source code is not available.  Only one source for P3 modems.  I see little difference between this and P3, yet the FCC looks the other way.

The Pactor 3 protocol description is readily available. 
Sure, protocols are things like levels, time durations, etc.  A protocol isn't at issue here.

Quote
The SCS owned source code to implement Pactor 3 is intellectual property and is proprietary. 
It is precisely the source code to produce a pactor 3 interchange that is at issue, and makes it an intentionally exclusive mode.  A mode only available to those willing to "pay SCS' price."  Fine for commerical, encoded exchanges, but not fine for amateur radio.

 
Quote
You are free to write your own program to implement Pactor 3 based on the published protocol.
And, just how would I do that?  Buy an SCS black box, then try x to the nth combinations of the protocol data to determine ASCI characters and punctuation?

Because SCS chooses not to release the code even via a license agreement pretty much makes it something intentionally kept esoteric.  Not at all different than the code in question here.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!