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Author Topic: new al 80b not working  (Read 4814 times)
N4JTE
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« on: February 15, 2013, 04:21:03 PM »

Out of the box, wired for the 230 volts, put the two straps on as per directions. Put a 12/3 plug on the wire.
Turn it on, micro second later a little click sound , no smoke, no power, very slight smell.
Fuses all good, 230v at lines inside the cab with power on and top off, interesting.
Any thoughts ?
Bob

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W8JX
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 04:45:20 PM »

My guess is fuse F101. If it has soft start as manual says you will have to replace R 10 ohm R27 with a 20 ohm for 230.  If not 101 will blow and amp will not start
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K4RVN
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 04:45:49 PM »

Double check the changeover from 120 as received from Ameritron to 240/230 taps that you made. Even if it is not blowing the fuses, the voltage could be wrong. It also might be a relay that is out of tract due to shipping bounce. Check for any burned resistors on the start circuit. Might be a good idea to check with Ameritron as they have heard it all I think. Do all your checking with no power left in the caps. You will not have to change any resistors, but should change the fuses for 230/240 operation as the manual calls for it. Good luck, please keep us posted. Double check the manual for the resistors as I could be wrong but don't think so. It would be silly to require that on a dedicated Ameritron 120/240 transformer unless it was a harbach soft start add on.
I would surely check the 2 amp slow blow fuse that protects the resistor circuit as someone said in another post. If it blew the there must be a reason so double check the transformer again and the plug wiring for 230 volts you mentioned.

Frank
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 05:09:40 PM by K4RVN » Logged
N4JTE
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 05:54:35 PM »

Is the  the f101 fuse visible from the top as I can not find it in circuit diagram. As stated the 10 amp fuse is fine and the 20 for 110 operation is not needed but also fine. Will find the resistor mentioned in the manual and check and then resolder the straps on the power strip.
Hopefully ameritron answers their phones on saturdays.
Tnx for help guys.
Bob
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K4RVN
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 06:28:39 PM »

Bob, I think it can be seen in a fuse holder on the power supply/swr board . It is a 2 amp fuse listed in the parts list as 755-1102 at the bottom of the list. Also it is shown as you scroll down page 30 beyond the wiring diagram on the power supply/swr board. It is  F101 down toward the bottom near R 127 and Rly102. Hey, I like your phased diople wire beam for 40 meters. Hope you get that AL 80 B going .
I agree with JX that it is probably blown, but find out why if you can. I think this is it in this link for a photo. http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?366896-Ameritron-Al-80B&highlight=AL+80B
click on the photos and you can see a close up of the board with a fuse. I think the same resistor is fine for 240 or 120 volt operation, but the delay time may be different. The guy that could tell us dummys is sorely missed by me for sure.

Frank
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 06:59:04 PM by K4RVN » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 06:29:13 PM »

Is the  the f101 fuse visible from the top as I can not find it in circuit diagram. As stated the 10 amp fuse is fine and the 20 for 110 operation is not needed but also fine. Will find the resistor mentioned in the manual and check and then resolder the straps on the power strip.
Hopefully ameritron answers their phones on saturdays.
Tnx for help guys.
Bob


I do not own a 80b and Ameritron is bit vague but manual suggests there is a soft start circuit in it and it starts with a 10 ohm resistor in series with transformer to reduce surge load. It is also in series with a 2a fuse to prevent resistor burnout. When you switch to 230 you will over load resistor and it will pop 2 amp fuse and not power up. Swapping in a 20 ohm resistor in place of 10 ohm one will prevent fuse blow on 230v start up.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 06:33:29 PM by W8JX » Logged

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K6AER
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 08:01:04 PM »

Key line?
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N4JTE
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 09:23:07 PM »

Appreciate all comments, the 2 amp fuse along with input 10 amp fuse all good.
Rewired back to 110 and still nada, so will wait for tech to show up monday and probaly have to box it back up, big pia!!
tnx all.
Bob
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KM3F
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 10:39:20 PM »

Page 12 of your user Manuel shows the input power option wiring  for 240 vac as;
B to C,
C to B,
E to 1,
F to 2,
Use 10 amp line fuses.
You do not change any soft start resistance value. It does not tell you to do this and should not need to be done in any event.
The only thing that is being done is changing the primary to work on 240 vac at half the working  ac current.
It does not change the inrush current to the transformer or charging of the filter bank, as they will take the same amount of current either way and produce the same operating plate voltage and plate current.
Are you sure you have the right terminals jumpers in place?
If nothing is happening, it suggests an open circuit.
Good luck.
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N4JTE
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 11:48:47 PM »

Tnx but  mine wired for measured 230 so was e to f and f to e, and b to c and c to b.
However resistor r27 on board, and I guess 127, in parts list measures open line as opposed to the nominal 10watts and 10 ohm expected, odd that half the current should impact that resistor when on 230 volts. Replacing with equal value seems pointless if design can not handle the change over to 230 volts.
It's all w8ji's fault, hi.
Bob
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K4RVN
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 05:42:02 AM »

Bob,
Thanks for getting back with your findings. There is no need to worry that a good resistor would not handle the change in voltage as designed. That would make no sense to me and Tom would not design it like that so a buyer would have to change parts on a new amp. At least I don't think he would. I hope you can get in touch with Ameritron but don't know if they are available on Sat.
I'll be anxious to see what the problem is once it is determined.

Frank
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W8JX
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2013, 05:48:48 AM »

Tnx but  mine wired for measured 230 so was e to f and f to e, and b to c and c to b.
However resistor r27 on board, and I guess 127, in parts list measures open line as opposed to the nominal 10watts and 10 ohm expected, odd that half the current should impact that resistor when on 230 volts. Replacing with equal value seems pointless if design can not handle the change over to 230 volts.
It's all w8ji's fault, hi.
Bob

Replace it with a 10 watt 20 ohm and it should be fine. Do not install another 10 ohm for 230 volt service,
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KM3F
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 05:02:04 PM »

How did you determine you needed the 230 volt option?
Did you measure with a voltmeter with known reasonable accuracy?
Reason I ask is if the line actually measures 240 and you option for 230 the circuts get "more" voltage than they should.
If this would be the case, the 3-500 tube filament voltage goes higher, the inrush current goes higher and the plate voltage could also go somewhat higher.
Said another way simply, if you fed a light bulb rated at 117 vac with 120 vac it will light up brigher, take more current and shorten it's life.
Bottom line is you must have some idea what you need by measurement and not do any guessing.
This condition certainly would have an effect on the power dissipation the inrush protection circuit handles and could cause failure at some point.
Only reason I bring this up is anyone who plans on making an option change like this needs to be accurate with the changes vs the actual line voltage.
If an error is made or the or line voltage shifts too wildly higher, it's better to option for a higher voltage, not lower.
If the fluctuations in line voltage are to wide ranging then some type of correction needs to be done with the  AC feedline, house wiring corrections or power company needs to make improvements it's service to you.
Good luck.
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KK3AN
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 07:56:21 PM »

What KM3F is saying is absolutely spot-on.

I've personally measured voltage fluctuations at my QTH that vary wildly - from about 208v up to about 248v. It's impossible what to predict the actual voltage will be. Line voltages can change from season to season as well.

Dan  KK3AN
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W8JX
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 08:33:45 PM »

What KM3F is saying is absolutely spot-on.

I've personally measured voltage fluctuations at my QTH that vary wildly - from about 208v up to about 248v. It's impossible what to predict the actual voltage will be. Line voltages can change from season to season as well.

Dan  KK3AN

While a 10 volt swing or sag is a big deal on 115/120 it as not a big deal on 230/240 as it is merely a 4% change and is not the cause of his problem.
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