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Author Topic: Logs, QSL cards, and nets  (Read 4780 times)
WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2013, 02:59:23 PM »

Another option which incorporates both--sign up for an eqsl account but do not enter any of your paper-logged contacts. Just reply to those contacts which the other ham has uploaded. You will get notice that the contact is in your inbox, then, checking your paper log, verify as appropriate. Also with LOTW, just put in the contacts you think you will need for awards, if you collect them. In neither case is a computer log needed. I know it is selfish (one would not always call me altruistic) but it works. Dale, kb3fei.

Dale,

Funny you should mention that. Just yesterday I confirmed and electronic QSL through QRZ.com and send a request for electronic confirmation to another contact. I certainly do not have a problem doing that and am more than happy to reply to hams who want to do things electronically. That however does not change the fact that my station log is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, on paper. Funny how some people jump to the conclusion that one option excludes the other, isn't it?

Allan
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »

For routine contacts (not contesting) I keep a "paper" log also...the old ARRL spiral-bound books, 1200 QSOs per book.

I have my original ones from my Novice days 47 years ago, and every one in between.  I'm on ARRL Log #371 at this time; #372 is blank and waiting.

I like the feel and smell of it, and observing the changes in my handwriting (and printing) over the years.  I'm amazed what great penmanship I had when I was 13 years old...better than now, for sure. Tongue

Every accidental spill, every "coffee ring stain," it's all there in or on the logs.

Just can't do that with a computer.

For contesting, of course I use computers.  I've never even remotely considered loading all my manual logs into a logging program for any reason, and doubt I ever will.

Now, regarding QSL'ing members of a net: Of course you can.  Some nets are specifically for that (they are County Hunter Nets, State Hunter Nets, Grid Hunter Nets, DX Nets and all sorts of nets whose main purpose is to help people get together and work new stuff they hadn't worked before).  Some nets aren't.  But it doesn't really matter.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 04:20:11 PM »

Dave NK7Z,

I apologize if I ruffled your feathers but please try to see it from my point of view. I started off being explicit that I did not want to use computer logging. Then someone basically tells me that is a mistake. I thank them for their opinion and politely explain in great detail why I do not want a computer logging program. Then someone else comes in and tries to convince me again to use a computer logging program. I try to explain yet again that I do not want a computer logging program, this time a little more colorfully. Again, someone comes in telling me why I should use a computer logging program.

So Dave, would you please be kind enough to tell me how exactly I can explain politely and respectfully that I have absolutely no interest in a computer logging program regardless of the consequences?

So it is impolite for me to LOL at the idea of suggesting a 2m radio for someone who wants to work 40m (that is where the LOL was after all), but it is OK for you to repeatedly pressure me into using something I have repeatedly stated I do not want to do? Telling me my decision is a "bad decision" because you disagree with it?

I appreciate your point of view, I really do. I appreciate all the help and suggestions I get. But please, lay off the computer logging!

Allan

Hi Allen,

Not a problem for me...  No pressure, you did after all ask, and yes you said you were not interested in non paper logs...  However, you did say you were new...  Hence why many people suggested you re-think your no computer position...  It seems so selfish to ignore the rest of your ham friends who want your contact via computer logs, that is the point here.  The hobby is not just about you, or me, it is about everyone... 

Look at it from my point of view...  A new ham comes on scene, asking about his first contact, and mentions he will not be doing what 90% of the rest of the people are doing...  That sort of sounds newbie like, and at the same time the person is asking what others think...  They let him know...  From my point, it looks as if you probably should should have not even mentioned paper logging, as you are not really asking for any input there...  All it does it convince others to try and help when they see what they think is an obvious mistake from a person who is without doubt a newbie at this...  Everyone is just trying to help you because they probably have had to transcribe hundreds of entries and it is not fun...  That is all that is happening here...

In any case, paper log or not, welcome to the hobby!  It is fun, and if you ever do an electronic log, look at N3FJP's log...  Smiley

Take Care,
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 06:11:40 PM »

Dave,

The only reason I mentioned paper logging at all is because I am new and thought there might be a difference between how you log a net on paper vs on the computer.

For example, had I not mentioned paper logging at all you may have assumed I was using computer logging and said (I am making this up to make my point) "Oh, you put the net controller's call in as the station contact, then check the box that says Net, then a new form appears where you can put in the other contacts in the net". At this point I would have to clarify that I was using paper and we would have to start over.

I never once asked about computer vs paper logging, I asked how to log the calls ON PAPER. The next two questions involved QSL cards, not logging of any kind.

As for just trying to help the newbie, suggesting once that they look at computer logging I would think is sufficient, twice is pushing it, more than that is just being obnoxious unless you are dealing with a safety issue, IMHO.

And if I ever do decide to go paperless, I will probably run my office's Fujitsu scanner at 60PPM, full duplex, and have that OCRed right into a custom database. Should take 30 seconds per full log book to input. But thanks, again, for your computer logging suggestion.

Allan

PS. Just in case you missed it..... A L L >>>>>A<<<<< N  :-)
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NK7Z
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 01:09:29 AM »

Dave,

The only reason I mentioned paper logging at all is because I am new and thought there might be a difference between how you log a net on paper vs on the computer.

For example, had I not mentioned paper logging at all you may have assumed I was using computer logging and said (I am making this up to make my point) "Oh, you put the net controller's call in as the station contact, then check the box that says Net, then a new form appears where you can put in the other contacts in the net". At this point I would have to clarify that I was using paper and we would have to start over.

I never once asked about computer vs paper logging, I asked how to log the calls ON PAPER. The next two questions involved QSL cards, not logging of any kind.

As for just trying to help the newbie, suggesting once that they look at computer logging I would think is sufficient, twice is pushing it, more than that is just being obnoxious unless you are dealing with a safety issue, IMHO.

And if I ever do decide to go paperless, I will probably run my office's Fujitsu scanner at 60PPM, full duplex, and have that OCRed right into a custom database. Should take 30 seconds per full log book to input. But thanks, again, for your computer logging suggestion.

Allan

PS. Just in case you missed it..... A L L >>>>>A<<<<< N  :-)

Your welcome!  Smiley
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W1JKA
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Posts: 1667




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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2013, 02:09:57 AM »

Re: NK7Z  Reply #17

       " 90% of the rest" using computerized logging.Did you get this figure from an e-ham survey or somewhere else?
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 08:23:06 AM »

For routine contacts (not contesting) I keep a "paper" log also...the old ARRL spiral-bound books, 1200 QSOs per book.

I have my original ones from my Novice days 47 years ago, and every one in between.  I'm on ARRL Log #371 at this time; #372 is blank and waiting.

I like the feel and smell of it, and observing the changes in my handwriting (and printing) over the years.  I'm amazed what great penmanship I had when I was 13 years old...better than now, for sure. Tongue

Every accidental spill, every "coffee ring stain," it's all there in or on the logs.

Smiley  My old paper logs remind me of a lot of things--the long chat on 15m with a young English ham, I was still a Technician at the time, and we were chatting at 7wpm, I suppose, but we had a long chat about how his brother had died, and he got his brother's old call.  Heck of a nice fellow.  And the fellow in Alaska, an Extra down in the novice bands helping us newbies out; we talked about how different gardening was between NC and AK, and he patiently "chatted" along at my painfully slow CW speed ...  The priest at a technical school in Micronesia, on 15m phone--I was excited to work such a rare place, and he was kind as can be ...  lot of memories in a paper log.  Smiley
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4589




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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2013, 03:35:20 AM »

It's interesting that people still keep a log, even though it's not required. Looking back through them can be real nostalgia. Like the VU4 answering a CQ......or VK0 Heard Island coming back first call on Christmas Eve because he had no takers!
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N6AJR
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2013, 02:31:54 PM »

I find that listening to the experience of others helps me in my ham functions. For some mode, ( psk 31, RTTY  and such) you absolutely need a computer. If you get on a net ( we refer to them as listening nets) and you are the new guy, there will be 20 or 30 others  wanting to work you the first night, which is difficult on a paper log.

you can add notes to most loggers, so you can make those contacts note if you choose.  I used to use paper logs, but my logs from 1978 to 1081 got wiped out in a flood here, so I had to rebuild as well as I could from the qsl cards from back then that were not wiped out.  So now I get my logs on two loggers (N3FJP's AC log and DXLabsuite) plus I use N1MM for contesting.

so yes, you can use a paper log book, but take my word for it. it is a pain in the derriere to log in 10,000 contacts  by hand form a  paper log into a computer log.  also they help you keep tract of worked all states, DXCC and so on.  your choice, but as a modest dxer and contester and rag chewer, I have about 40,000 contacts and that is a big pile of papers. DO as you wish, and I have terrible handwriting, so some of my contacts are hard to decipher. I prefer  computerized logs.
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G3RZP
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2013, 02:43:55 PM »

When it comes to awards, the only one I'm after seriously is #1DXCC Honor Roll, and the I just need one QSL from KP1. Otherwise, paper will do me for possibly finishing 9BDXCC - I have 5BDXCC......Contesting is  problem because of chronic sciatica limiting how long I can sit - that came afte going to a CEPT meeting in Hungary in 1997  to look after amateur radio interests and tripping up getting off a bus!

Plus I am a distinct Luddite - never sent a text in my life, no Twitter, no facebook, no interest in them. The only 'digital' mode of interest is CW.......spent the last 20 years involved with the design of various digital radio systems and it does not turn me on at all!
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W1VT
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2013, 03:31:08 PM »

I still keep paper logs my non-contest QSOs.  It is good way to practice my handwriting--amazingly, despite having  a stroke some 14 years ago, my handwriting is  as good as it has ever been!  I can easily tell by looking at my old logbooks.  You  can tell I was on a tight budget when I was in college--I'd fit two QSOs per line by writing really small!  These days, I write larger to make it easier to read!  I've also been keeping  a computer log, so I can keep track of who I've worked and on what bands. 

Zack Lau W1VT
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WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2013, 09:23:26 PM »

I never said I would never use a computer to log, or for data (data is something I am interested in). I just really like the idea right now of a paper log book. And isn't having fun what it is all about? Well I am having a blast with my paper log book, five days, 30 contacts, 11 states, 8 other countries (I count the US Virgin Islands as a country, not sure if it is, heh). My closest contact was from about 100 miles away, my furthest was Milan Italy.

Now if the printer would just get my dang QSL cards here so I can start mailing them out!

Allan
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G3RZP
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2013, 01:36:05 AM »

US Virgin islands are a DXCC entity.
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AC4RD
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2013, 08:59:25 AM »

I never said I would never use a computer to log, or for data ... (I count the US Virgin Islands as a country, not sure if it is, heh). My closest contact was from about 100 miles away, my furthest was Milan Italy.

Allan, there's a nice list of "official" (by DXCC standards) countries at:  http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/dxcclist_jan_2013a.txt

You can also pay a few bucks for a paper version from the ARRL, which is nice, but it sounds like you (same as me) would rather import the data into something you've created yourself to track countries worked/QSLd, bands & modes, etc. 

It sounds like you're getting a case of "DX Fever."  Smiley  It's usually rapidly progressive, and while it can be ameliorated in some instances, it never really goes away.  Wink  It's also a lot of FUN!  73!
  -ken
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G3RZP
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2013, 09:06:21 AM »

If you figure you are getting into DX, get the book 'The Compleat DXer' by Bob Locher, from Idiom Press.
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