Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: BAD time to ask for QRS  (Read 1153 times)
AF3Y
Member

Posts: 3786




Ignore
« on: September 07, 2009, 02:22:24 PM »

Today, during a large, RABID pile trying to work a 3A station (who, by the way, NEVER seems to want to work split.... Maybe it's an ego thing??), here comes a BIG BIG "QRS QRS" at about 5 WPM! Someone must have had too much Labor Day brew. In the middle of a pileup is NOT the time, in my opinion, to request QRS. There is a "Time and Place for Everything", but - THAT AINT' IT!
Along with the hoard of tuner-uppers, that was just MORE QRM!  Gene
Logged
KC0W
Member

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2009, 02:45:02 PM »

Nothing unusual there, people operate like this whenever the pileups get rolling. Lids, kids & space cadets, hihi........Where's that guy who's been spotting, "Bozo Weekend" on the DXclusters when you really need him?  


Tom KC├śW
Logged
N7FE
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 08:23:18 PM »

What do you suggest be done then?
Logged
K5END
Member

Posts: 1309




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 06:35:12 AM »

For some the hobby is about busting that pile up.

For some others it is about encouraging a new CW op.

Not defending 5 wpm, but did that prevent anyone from making the QSO?
Logged
KB1OOO
Member

Posts: 214


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 12:21:45 PM »

IMHO, the only time to ask for QRS is when someone answers your CQ at a speed that's faster than your CQ call.   Even then, I think that you are better off just dealing with the other op's sending speed and ending the QSO early if needed.  

Actually, I'd say that replying to a CQ call at a faster speed than it was issued may do more to encourage the callers speed development than QRSing down to his/her speed.

Umm, maybe I'm arriving at the opinion that you are probably better off never asking for a QRS Smiley

73,
kb1ooo
Marc
Logged
WB5JEO
Member

Posts: 805




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 03:24:27 PM »

I think it's just realistic to consider that a new operator whose speed is severely limited isn't ready for prime time, like a hot DX pile-up. And if the operator can't handle copying his own call and a report, which is about all that's required to complete a DX contact in that situation, he's slow indeed. There's nothing much to be done about it. That's pretty much up to the DX station, to ignore, QRS, or chastise, and chastising probably wouldn't be copies, anyway. It's no different from what the serious emergency nets deal with, inexperienced operators applying to be net controls because they think it would be neat but have never tried it nor spent enough time on such nets to know the ropes.
Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3894




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 03:44:13 AM »

It takes more time to chastise than it does to work slow station at 5 wpm.

We were all beginners once.

And if the DX were going 5 wpm, you can bet the pack would slow down!

IMHO

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 02:04:59 PM »

>>>"here comes a BIG BIG "QRS QRS" at about 5 WPM!"<<<

...And the DX station likely didn't even hear the guy because of his "NVIS" antenna height...

Which is likely why he ws so loud stateside.
Logged
KE7WAV
Member

Posts: 128




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 04:26:17 PM »

IF IF IF the slow op was able to at least copy the call sign of the coveted station then I say make a call.  I would just send my callsign at a speed I could RX and then hope the op would be curteous enough to QRS.  Every new key needs someone to QRS or they would only be a lot more silent keys.
Logged
KE3WD
Member

Posts: 5689




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 05:27:43 PM »

Part of the pride in snagging DX is the testimony to skillful operating practices such provides.  

Earned, not given.


--KE3WD
Logged
NI0C
Member

Posts: 2408




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »

I share Gene's concern about this one, and do not agree with the opinions expressed here by K5END and N2EY.

It is pretty obvious in this case that someone with poor CW skills jumped in a pileup way over his/her head, undoubtedly as a result of looking at DX cluster spots.  This person should not have been transmitting at all-- they should have listened and learned instead.  As Gene pointed out, the very slow request for QRS was causing QRM to others.  

This may sound harsh, but beginning CW operators need to put in some time acquiring listening and copying skills before participating in fast-paced pileups on rare or semi-rare DX.

73,
Chuck  NI0C
Logged
K5END
Member

Posts: 1309




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 05:52:43 AM »

quote, "I share Gene's concern about this one, and do not agree with the opinions expressed here by K5END and N2EY."

Hold on.

We don't disagree as much as you might think.

I agree the description sounds like a nuisance, and no doubt frustrating to the experienced ops.

Based on the description, the QRS-man probably had no idea what trouble he was causing. If he truly sent QRS at 5 wpm, then it seems reasonable to assume he wasn't copying much of the other exchanges.

Chances are he didn't even hear the  other stateside stations, but it's very likely he was unable to discern "us" from the DX in what to him seemed like a flowing river of dits and dahs.

This sort of thing will happen again. We have to face that reality.

It's not possible to educate beforehand the newbie who just shows up like the first grader with his new blue jeans--or in this case, his 756MKiiG and G5RV--without having taken the time to educate himself. This is one reason I believe clubs and Elmering are so important. And it sounds like this kid needs an Elmer or 2, or 10.

From what I've been told, when this sort of thing happens, the best thing to do is go ahead and work the slow poke and get him out of the way. If he is obtuse enough to send that 5 wpm "QRS," he may not be shy about sticking around for a while.

That makes sense to me. My position is recognize it and deal with it rather than get p.o.'ed about it.

Easier said, than done, I know. "Patience" is not one of my top ten qualities, so I think I understand what you mean. But we have to be realistic and outsmart the "unsmart."

I'm relatively new to code myself, but I am working on it pretty hard. You may be interested to know that at least one newbie (me) spends about 99% of the time listening and 1% of the time in Qs.

One thing I recommend to newbies is to participate in slow nets or straight key events. I've been there, and it helps me.
Logged
NI0C
Member

Posts: 2408




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 07:42:40 AM »

"Based on the description, the QRS-man probably had no idea what trouble he was causing. If he truly sent QRS at 5 wpm, then it seems reasonable to assume he wasn't copying much of the other exchanges.

Chances are he didn't even hear the other stateside stations, but it's very likely he was unable to discern "us" from the DX in what to him seemed like a flowing river of dits and dahs."


Exactly.  That's why he should not have been transmitting at all.


"This sort of thing will happen again. We have to face that reality."


Unfortunately, with today's lax licensing requirements, you're right.


"From what I've been told, when this sort of thing happens, the best thing to do is go ahead and work the slow poke and get him out of the way. If he is obtuse enough to send that 5 wpm "QRS," he may not be shy about sticking around for a while."


Here's where we disagree. Rewarding poor behavior is never a good idea.  When lids manage to get through a pileup in spite of (or because of) their poor operating, they don't learn anything, so they just stay lids.  Worse yet, they encourage others to sink to their level.  

Fortunately, very few rare dx stations or dxpeditioners put up with this sort of nonsense.  In the vast majority of cases, the lid gets ignored, and the better operators just work around him.  

73,
Chuck  NI0C
Logged
K5END
Member

Posts: 1309




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 04:36:30 AM »

Why not send the liddish guy a letter and explain why what he is doing is not good operation?

If the result is improvement of the band activity, it's worth a 43-cent investment, right?

73
LK K5END
Logged
KI6PDQ
Member

Posts: 28




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2009, 09:11:58 PM »

Maybe you are mistaken or misinformed, please read this link http://www.csgnetwork.com/hamfreqtable.html            For Novice and Technicians it is legal and encouraged by the FCC to operate at five words per minute on certain bands. Newcomers need to blend in if more experienced ops. want CW to survive.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!