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Author Topic: LOTW certificate revoked?????????????  (Read 5693 times)
AH6RR
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2013, 12:14:57 AM »

When someone sets their goals or standards low enough, its easy to be very successful. (But to generate a false sense of above average accomplishment.)

73,  Gene AF3Y

Whatever floats your boat Gene.

73 Dragan K0AP

Dragan I know what you mean and as my Mother used to say, Gene "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out" or just take a break for a while. I still get the thrill when I work a ATNO as I did when I first started in 86 Hell I still get a thrill out of working DX period. I do a lot of DX ragchewing and it is a blast. I love BB King but for me the Thrill Is (not) Gone. I just ignore the Lids and Cop's since they are all the same just a bunch of idiots with the brains of a 3 year old and if you think it's bad on the Ham bands just check out the CB frequencies it makes the Ham bands sound tame I was just doing some SWL'ing the other day and ran through 27Mhz now that's a freaking zoo 24/7. By the way I got 2 ATNO's today and it puts my total to 287 and makes me want more even though I know they will be few and far between now.

73 and Aloha,
Roland AH6RR
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2013, 12:18:33 AM »

  I have so many different tq8 an p12s and whatever, I just sent a ticket to ARRL. I will get it worked out Monday (Maybe.......)

This is just one more log on the fire toward my bailing out of this hobby. The thrill is gone, no ATNOs on the horizon, QRM/LIDS getting worse, etc., etc.
... is the LIDS.  I would rather have a root canal than work SSB again. Its hard to believe the crap that goes on .......

Gene, I've had the same problem trying to use different computers for LOTW; several times I've gotten tangled up in what certificate was the newest.  For me, the easy answer has always been to request a brand-new certificate from ARRL and start from there. 

Yes, but you're placing an unnecessary load on the LotW Help Desk. What would happen if every LotW user did what you're doing?

It's a simple matter to direct TQSLCert to save each of your certificates to a .p12 file, and then backup those .p12 files just like you would your log. Should your PC crash, you'll be able to recover your certificates from your .p12 files in minutes. You can also use a .p12 file to effectively copy a certificate from one PC to another: copy the .p12 from the source PC to the destination PC, and run TQSLCert on the destination PC to obtain your certificate from the .p12 file you just moved there.
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W1VT
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2013, 12:58:21 AM »

Don't worry about needing a new certificate--from what I've heard, numerous times, directly from LoTW staff, is that issuing a new certificate is no big deal.

Much better that you ask for a new certificate than you get frustrated with LoTW.

Zack W1VT
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 01:01:23 AM by W1VT » Logged
AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2013, 04:49:40 AM »

Don't worry about needing a new certificate--from what I've heard, numerous times, directly from LoTW staff, is that issuing a new certificate is no big deal.

Much better that you ask for a new certificate than you get frustrated with LoTW.

Zack, many thanks for the reassurance.  I'm actually pretty careful about keeping backups, including of my certificates, but when you have three desktops and a half-dozen laptops it gets hard to be sure you've got the most recent certificate files.

BTW, I sure have enjoyed a lot of your articles over the years.
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N3QE
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2013, 05:04:10 AM »

Yes, but you're placing an unnecessary load on the LotW Help Desk. What would happen if every LotW user did what you're doing?

I don't think there's a lot to be embarrassed about. It is SURPRISINGLY easy to goof up a certificate renewal or misplace a certificate or mix up your backup of the "new one" with the "old one" and find out that what you thought was the "new one" was really the revoked "old one".

And the LOTW help desk guys have gotten me through it quickly every time.

Tim.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2013, 08:21:36 AM »

Quote
es, but you're placing an unnecessary load on the LotW Help Desk. What would happen if every LotW user did what you're doing?

It would be damn near impossible to remember every intricate detail of LoTW setup. The fact of the matter is that it is very common for people to get a new computer or hard drive and have this problem. And they are not going to remember several years back regarding the certificate shenanigans. If everyone had to figure out things on their own in any area of technology, then there would be a hell of a lot of unemployed helpdesk people.

What would you rather have? A job with a burden or no job?
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2013, 12:41:01 AM »

Quote
es, but you're placing an unnecessary load on the LotW Help Desk. What would happen if every LotW user did what you're doing?

It would be damn near impossible to remember every intricate detail of LoTW setup. The fact of the matter is that it is very common for people to get a new computer or hard drive and have this problem. And they are not going to remember several years back regarding the certificate shenanigans. If everyone had to figure out things on their own in any area of technology, then there would be a hell of a lot of unemployed helpdesk people.

What would you rather have? A job with a burden or no job?

I provided an explanation so that it would not be necessary to request a new certificate.

The procedure for moving certificates between computers has long been documented in step-by-step fashion. Similar step-by-step documentation will be included in the next version of TQSL. A future version of TQSL will provide automation for the process of moving certificates and "station locations" from one computer to another.

The ARRL Help Desk staff have many higher-value activities to undertake than to repeatedly issue new certificates to users who failed to backup their certificates in .p12 files and thus left themselves vulnerable to hardware and software failures, or who moved .tq6 files from one computer to another.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2013, 02:09:31 PM »

Quote
es, but you're placing an unnecessary load on the LotW Help Desk. What would happen if every LotW user did what you're doing?

It would be damn near impossible to remember every intricate detail of LoTW setup. The fact of the matter is that it is very common for people to get a new computer or hard drive and have this problem. And they are not going to remember several years back regarding the certificate shenanigans. If everyone had to figure out things on their own in any area of technology, then there would be a hell of a lot of unemployed helpdesk people.

What would you rather have? A job with a burden or no job?

I'll take a job (and already have one) where I don't have to deal directly with customers. I have so many levels of bigshots over me at the current job (or at least they consider themselves bigshots) that I only have to deal with engineers and s/w developers. I find it very amusing that as long as LOTW has been around that there are many that still can't just follow the WRITTEN directions and do it the first time or keep it backed up once installed and working. The instructions tell you precisely how and why to do a backup of your certificate as a P12 file. Common computer practices that have been around as long as there have been computers have detailed how to succesfully do backups and how to handle multiple backup revisions. It's not rocket science by no means. Golden Rule is to NEVER keep a backup file on the main operating hard disk. If the main operating disk goes TU, then there goes the backup too. CDs, DVDs, and thumbdrives all make excellent backup media and thumbdrives allow easy updates with new backup revisions with no muss, no fuss.

I have helped many in our local club and area setup LOTW and not inculding the wait for the 'postcard', it can be done in less than 10 minutes and this includes uploading a large logbook the first time. Sure it take a little while to get that upload processed but it's not like the data is being used to prevent a world war or such. Once your certificate has been obtained from the ARRL and loaded into TQSL program, first thing to do is make a P12 backup and save that to an off disk storage element (CD, DVD, thumbdrive, etc) and store that away safely. I keep a copy with my logbook backups and another with my important backups on media in a fireproof safe. If the hard disk crashes, I simply reload the logging program, restore the latest logbook backup and load on TQSL program and restore the P12 file. Back online in a matter of minutes (of course not counting the time to install new hardware).

I have always held that if you can operate a new state of the art transceiver, you should be able to setup and use LOTW with no problems. I guess there are exceptions to every rule???
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
AF3Y
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Posts: 3878




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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »

Well pardon the hell out of me for overloading the damned LOTW system. Jesus Christ, guys. I wish now that I had not said anything here on the forum. You  guys seem to expect everyone else to be as software and computer savvy as you are. Guess what? I am not. AND I dont do software OR computers for a living or as a hobby.

I was in the heavy construction (roads, bridges, infrastructure) industry for most of my life. I can probably still operate most excavation and grading equipment quite well, even tho I have been retired for 11 years now. I did not operate equipment, except on rare occasion, for some 10 years prior to retiring. I sat on my ass and got fat, so its been 20+ years since I even started equipment up. (Someone would have to help me get up there on it! Shocked)

If I gave you an operators manual for a motor grader and asked you to grade a road for me, within a half inch or so of proposed grade, could you do it?  I doubt it. With the manual, you probably could turn it on, start it up, drive it around, and that would be just about the extent of your untrained expertise. You could not do anything even close to precise with it.

Many, if not most folks my age probably know even less about computers than I do, which is not a lot. But, I try, and when I dont get it done, I ask for help. If that is not the proper thing to do, then I guess I screwed up. So What? The sun is gonna come up tomorrow, and I am not going to crash LOTW by asking them for help. I am sure they would let me know if I had bothered them.

I am glad you guys are so happy and buried in your hightech work that you have now taken to berating someone who does not have your experience or training. OVER NOTHING.

I really want to say something really really rude here, but what the hell. Its just another day in paradise...... You guys can just keep on keeping on........... Cool

73, Gene AF3Y
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 03:36:15 PM by AF3Y » Logged
N4NYY
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Posts: 4820




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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2013, 03:47:42 PM »


Quote
I have always held that if you can operate a new state of the art transceiver, you should be able to setup and use LOTW with no problems. I guess there are exceptions to every rule???

LoTW is far from 1-2-3 setup. I did not recall any setup problem. The only problem I had was when I got a new computer, and used the FAQ to fix it. But that is just me. I only had 1 P12 file to locate. None the less, it is a paid service because you cannot utilize any QSL unless you pay for the credits. And if that is the case, you should have the ability to get help.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2013, 03:54:07 PM »

Quote
The procedure for moving certificates between computers has long been documented in step-by-step fashion. Similar step-by-step documentation will be included in the next version of TQSL. A future version of TQSL will provide automation for the process of moving certificates and "station locations" from one computer to another.

Correct. I used it once when I got a new computer and worked well. Saying that, my DX elmer who was a saint of a man, had trouble uploading a ADI file and for whatever reason, he could not do it. This was attributed to an upgrade to his DX logger that changed the way he was to upload. When he could not do it, I went over there and did it for him. And before anyone questions his his abilities, he was a genius.

http://obits.nj.com/obituaries/southjerseytimes/obituary-print.aspx?n=douglas-g-gehring&pid=160676612
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM »


Quote
I have always held that if you can operate a new state of the art transceiver, you should be able to setup and use LOTW with no problems. I guess there are exceptions to every rule???

LoTW is far from 1-2-3 setup. I did not recall any setup problem. The only problem I had was when I got a new computer, and used the FAQ to fix it. But that is just me. I only had 1 P12 file to locate. None the less, it is a paid service because you cannot utilize any QSL unless you pay for the credits. And if that is the case, you should have the ability to get help.

LoTW is not a 123 setup.  I wrote software for 10 years and eventually even I had to call the help desk to get mine going.   LoTW is not a very intuitive setup and the documentation is a bit confusing.  Sometimes things work as planned as it did on my second PC but most of the time you get waist deep into problems getting it up and running.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 04:43:55 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
AF3Y
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2013, 05:08:02 PM »


most of the time you get waist deep into problems getting it up.

Wait until you get to be my age Grin (Just COULD NOT resist that!)

73, Gene AF3Y
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K7KB
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Posts: 618




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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2013, 09:33:47 PM »

LoTW is not a 123 setup.  I wrote software for 10 years and eventually even I had to call the help desk to get mine going.   LoTW is not a very intuitive setup and the documentation is a bit confusing.  Sometimes things work as planned as it did on my second PC but most of the time you get waist deep into problems getting it up and running.

I know what you are saying. I consider myself fairly computer savvy but I still had issues getting LOTW setup when I first started using it. I haven't had any problems since then, moving the certificate around to 2 different computers in the last couple of months. I would imagine that LOTW can be very intimidating to many users.

John K7KB
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NU1O
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Posts: 2762




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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2013, 10:20:37 PM »

Gene should be able to get the help he needs from the LoTW desk.  LoTW generates a lot of money. It's not our fault the ARRL executives run it with a skeleton crew. They must have been diverting the LoTW profit to pet projects all these years. When the bottleneck problem arouse they finally put some needed resources back into the project.

Gene is one of the elder statesmen of this forum and he deserves to be treated with respect.

Rather than criticizing Gene I think he should be commended for getting into ham radio at an advanced age and on top of it he came out of an industry where he didn't even use a PC at his daily job. He also taught himself the code which many don't know.

I have been fooling with computers since my days in college so it's not a fair comparison between me, or many in this forum who come from technical backgrounds, and Gene who comes from heavy industry.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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