Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Mosley Mini-33-WARC vs. Cushcraft MA5B - Any opinions from the experienced?  (Read 13842 times)
KB6HRT
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2013, 11:15:32 AM »

KA7NIQ,
 All antennas are flawed, you have to do the best you can with what the your landscape dictates, an how much time an money you want to put into your project. Have a small lot, lots of antennas, each has to be tuned to work there best, an also not interact with the other antennas on the lot, not an easy job to get good results.
My Grandmother told me when I was a small boy that nothing is impossable, the impossable just takes a little longer, am an old bird now but do know she gave the best advice she could have ever given me in doing my life and she must have knowed me well, and loved me very much to plant that seed in me when I was young........73s......kb6hrt
Logged
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2013, 11:49:40 AM »

KA7NIQ,
 All antennas are flawed, you have to do the best you can with what the your landscape dictates, an how much time an money you want to put into your project. Have a small lot, lots of antennas, each has to be tuned to work there best, an also not interact with the other antennas on the lot, not an easy job to get good results.
My Grandmother told me when I was a small boy that nothing is impossable, the impossable just takes a little longer, am an old bird now but do know she gave the best advice she could have ever given me in doing my life and she must have knowed me well, and loved me very much to plant that seed in me when I was young........73s......kb6hrt
Yes, and some are flawed more then others.
Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2013, 08:34:51 AM »

Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...

Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!




Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2013, 08:58:58 AM »

Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.




Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2013, 09:43:21 AM »

I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.





Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2013, 10:39:31 AM »

I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.
Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2013, 04:56:59 PM »

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.

Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2013, 05:19:30 PM »

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.


You can not compare your antenna to a dipole at a similar height, unless your dipole was a multi band dipole, cut for all the bands your antenna covers.
I mean you CAN compare (it is a free country), however, unless you compare your antennas performance on let's say 15 meters, vs a full size 15 meter dipole, at or near the same height, you can not say it "performs as good as a dipole".


Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2013, 08:12:21 PM »

It was... A fan dipole 10 - 20 meter...  I think I can...

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.


You can not compare your antenna to a dipole at a similar height, unless your dipole was a multi band dipole, cut for all the bands your antenna covers.
I mean you CAN compare (it is a free country), however, unless you compare your antennas performance on let's say 15 meters, vs a full size 15 meter dipole, at or near the same height, you can not say it "performs as good as a dipole".



Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
KB6HRT
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2013, 11:22:41 AM »

Hi Mike,
 Looks like you have done some more work on your antenna system an got some good results or results very much the same as I have, think a HEX beam would be somewhat of an upgrade, because it is bigger, but does have a larger wind load and with the winds at my QTH in the spring would not sleep as deep knowing that. On my little setup an after having my MQ-26 come down from 40' when I first put it up on a New 50' pushup, went with universal 30' tower which was priceeee, but well worth it on my end for me, When my setup came down the only thing that happened to the MQ-26 was it bent one of tubes on the front of the antenna, was able to straighten it but did get another one from Tom when I changed out my home made 30' pushup to the tower, you should have seen my R*** pushup it looked spaghetti, that told me a lot about the MQ-26 for sure...........73s.......an enjoy your new antenna, I sure enjoy this one......73s.......KB6HRT
Logged
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2013, 02:30:46 PM »

It was... A fan dipole 10 - 20 meter...  I think I can...

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.


You can not compare your antenna to a dipole at a similar height, unless your dipole was a multi band dipole, cut for all the bands your antenna covers.
I mean you CAN compare (it is a free country), however, unless you compare your antennas performance on let's say 15 meters, vs a full size 15 meter dipole, at or near the same height, you can not say it "performs as good as a dipole".



No, you can't really compare, because your "Fan Dipole" required a tuner!
Suddenly your wire dipole is now being called a "fan dipole".
You can call it whatever you want, but I have news for you, Fan Dipoles do not REQUIRE Tuners, especially ones for 20 through 10 meters!

Here are your own words "I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3."

You talk about having an MFJ Analyzer (you used on on the MW 26), yet why did you not try to tune your "fan dipole" with it, since you had it for a full year ?

And, if your "fan dipole" required a tuner, it was not a working Fan Dipole array, thus the supposed "comparison" you made to the MQ 26  is about as useful as balls on a priest.

No where, in pages of this thread, have you called your wire dipole a Fan Dipole array, until now!

What's up, with that  Shocked





Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2013, 04:25:01 PM »

I would admit that I could have spent the time to tune the fan dipole but honestly it would have not made much difference.. Similar to my MQ26, tuning or not tuning....  As long as the antenna is resonant within the band I am in it wont make much of a difference hearing when tuned with a tuner...  Your grasping for straws to make a point which in my opinion is mute.. Unless your sitting here in front of my rig you cant say what works, what doesnt, how well it should, blah blah blah... I can only tell you what my experience is..  If you dont believe me then turn to another thread, hang out on 313, or what ever.   Roll Eyes



It was... A fan dipole 10 - 20 meter...  I think I can...

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.


You can not compare your antenna to a dipole at a similar height, unless your dipole was a multi band dipole, cut for all the bands your antenna covers.
I mean you CAN compare (it is a free country), however, unless you compare your antennas performance on let's say 15 meters, vs a full size 15 meter dipole, at or near the same height, you can not say it "performs as good as a dipole".



No, you can't really compare, because your "Fan Dipole" required a tuner!
Suddenly your wire dipole is now being called a "fan dipole".
You can call it whatever you want, but I have news for you, Fan Dipoles do not REQUIRE Tuners, especially ones for 20 through 10 meters!

Here are your own words "I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3."

You talk about having an MFJ Analyzer (you used on on the MW 26), yet why did you not try to tune your "fan dipole" with it, since you had it for a full year ?

And, if your "fan dipole" required a tuner, it was not a working Fan Dipole array, thus the supposed "comparison" you made to the MQ 26  is about as useful as balls on a priest.

No where, in pages of this thread, have you called your wire dipole a Fan Dipole array, until now!

What's up, with that  Shocked






Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
VA2FSQ
Member

Posts: 519




Ignore
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2013, 06:15:21 PM »

Hey, anyone know w2irt?  The guy over there on the DX forum, on the honour role or close to it?  The guy with the huge beam on a 75 foot high tower?

Well, when I got started, he recommended the TGM antenna.  He has first hand experience with it and says it works well.

I've looked at all three of these antennas, and will probably go for the tgm. Did you know, they sell an add on boom and element to get it to three elements?

You know, no matter what anyone says, antennas can perform better than they think.  My lowly vertical, while it generates 10db more noise than my dipole, it also has signals 10db up on it.  I have worked everywhere with it, and in the last month added a ton from south asia. And just around the beginning of the month, one of the honour role guys told me I could not work the areas that I did. From what I heard, the TGM is way better.

Enjoy your antenna. I'll be getting one too.
Logged

VA2FSQ
KA7NIQ
Member

Posts: 260


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2013, 08:49:32 PM »

I would admit that I could have spent the time to tune the fan dipole but honestly it would have not made much difference.. Similar to my MQ26, tuning or not tuning....  As long as the antenna is resonant within the band I am in it wont make much of a difference hearing when tuned with a tuner...  Your grasping for straws to make a point which in my opinion is mute.. Unless your sitting here in front of my rig you cant say what works, what doesnt, how well it should, blah blah blah... I can only tell you what my experience is..  If you dont believe me then turn to another thread, hang out on 313, or what ever.   Roll Eyes



It was... A fan dipole 10 - 20 meter...  I think I can...

Thanks for stating the obvious....  thats why I included comparisons to a wire dipole at a similar height...


I did consider the other two until I stumbled upon the MQ - I was leaning towards the Mini 33 until I read about the difference between the loading systems ... then it was between the MA5B and the MQ... I believed both the MA5B and the MQ would have similar performance on 20 but better on 17 meters and higher, thus went with the MQ.

I doubt Tom was aware of the thread... Honestly another major reason I didnt go with the MA5B is due to poor past experience with MFJ.... So quality of the product and customer service in my opinion is 1/2 the value of any product.  I dont have time or patience to deal with issues and poor service.


The End Fed is about as high as the Antenna at the base (about 4 feet below it) and the top goes to about 40 feet up across my yard (its End Fed resonant on 40 and 20 as its a about a 1/2 wave on 40 and full wave on 20 with a tuning stub - No tuner needed for either band - about 200k bandwidth below 2:1 on 40 and less than 1.5 for entire 20).  I doubt there is an interaction, at least my analyzer tells me so - and nothing has changed since putting up the beam for the end fed.

I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3.

I know you probably had hopped that the mini beam didnt work out... but for me I had pretty low expectations - In other works as good as my dipole, better than my end fed (because thats what I saw in general in comparison to my wire dipole)...  I find its slightly better than my dipole in receive, much better in noise and will probably never use my end fed for 20m now.. It pretty much meets what it advertises... I dont know what you expected?  Worse than the wire dipole?  If that was the case I would have ripped that sucker off my roof and bought a different antenna - probably the MA5B next then the Mini 33 if that didnt work out! 

BUT it did meet my expectations, I was able to get some directivity (albeit, not very much but .5 - 2s points helps on 20), nice nulls off the side which helps with the power lines north of me, I can get it now 4 feet higher at or above the 1/2 wave for 20m, I have about 4 -6s points higher on 15 - 10m over the wire dipole, did I say how much improved the S/N is?, and looks like a TV antenna....

Not really sure what the point of your response was? AND just realized I spent 10 minutes of my life typing this out... !

Anyway... Will post some pics later on..





Wanted give you all an update -  I finished up the tuning... Raised it to about 33 feet ag.  I needed to lengthen on 20, 17 and 15 meters tuning rods from default settings.  It was relatively easy since each band didnt have much of an effect on the other bands... All prescribed bands get a 1:1 - 1:5 match with a tuner.  At the center point of resonance it tunes (with no tuner) to a 1:1 - 1:3 on all bands.  On 20 meters its about 90 - 100k of below 2:1, on the other bands its just about the entire band you are below 2:1. 

The antenna is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter over my previous wire dipole and End Fed.  I would say 2S over my wire dipole and 2-4s points over my end fed.

 Generally the beams signal strength is 0 - 2s over my wire dipole and 0 - 3s over my end fed... Keep in mind its 2 - 3s quieter all the time over my other antennas... stations that I can not pull out on my end fed are crystal clear on the beam.  On the wire dipole I can copy them but with difficulty...


Example, this morning I could not make out a station in puerto rico on my end fed at all...  On my wire dipole i could hear him but could not copy him... On the beam I could copy him with no issues (he was 5/3!)... even though its a small difference over my wire dipole it was the difference of copying him or not... 

One other positive - Stage 1 of getting the XYL to accept any antenna on the roof is complete "Wow not that bad... looks like a TV antenna"  This is only stage 1...
Stage 2 comes in time for a bigger better antenna Muahahahah!  It really does look like a TV antenna!  Whats stage 2?  Not sure - I really want that hex beam, but I suspect that will need to be a stage 3 or 4... Maybe a full size 2 element beam (still has more gain over the mini beam)...  OR maybe just get the antenna higher (with a tripod on the roof or something)... time will tell..


So... All objectives met with little disappointment...   And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!





Unless your end fed is at the same height, and is a dipole on the bands you are comparing it to your antenna, comparisons are well meaning, but meaningless.

I am not accusing you of being a shill, but this is almost a perfect Shill Thread !
The title of it lists the 2 major competitors to the antenna you say you purchased!
Thus, anyone considering the proven Cush Craft MA 5B or Mosley Mini 33 WARC will probably read this thread, and be made aware of that antenna you say you purchased.

Then, you say "And as another positive, Tom was amazing on assisting on just about everything; he responded within 24 hours on all emails... Very high quality parts no quality issues at all!"

LOL, I will BET he was  Roll Eyes
I am sure he is aware of this thread, at the very least, EH ?

Could you please take some pictures of your antenna installation, and also some pics of the End Fed Antenna in relation to your antenna. Try to show both antennas in the same picture, so we can see if there is any interaction taking place.


Any antenna cut to be 1/2 wave on 40 meters, will display slight gain, and very deep Nulls, when used on bands higher then 40 meters.
Thus, it is not possible to compare your new antenna with it on 10,15, and 20 meters.


You can not compare your antenna to a dipole at a similar height, unless your dipole was a multi band dipole, cut for all the bands your antenna covers.
I mean you CAN compare (it is a free country), however, unless you compare your antennas performance on let's say 15 meters, vs a full size 15 meter dipole, at or near the same height, you can not say it "performs as good as a dipole".



No, you can't really compare, because your "Fan Dipole" required a tuner!
Suddenly your wire dipole is now being called a "fan dipole".
You can call it whatever you want, but I have news for you, Fan Dipoles do not REQUIRE Tuners, especially ones for 20 through 10 meters!

Here are your own words "I have since taken down the wire dipole as it didnt add any value other than clutter my yard... It was about 4 feet below the beam before I took it down perpendicular to the end fed... the dipole required a tuner similar to the mini beam.  Since the dipole and end fed I have had for about a year it was easy for me to compare between the 3."

You talk about having an MFJ Analyzer (you used on on the MW 26), yet why did you not try to tune your "fan dipole" with it, since you had it for a full year ?

And, if your "fan dipole" required a tuner, it was not a working Fan Dipole array, thus the supposed "comparison" you made to the MQ 26  is about as useful as balls on a priest.

No where, in pages of this thread, have you called your wire dipole a Fan Dipole array, until now!

What's up, with that  Shocked






I remember very well your antenna, it was once called the Hybrid Products Company Mini Quad, before TGM bought out the design, and named it the MQ 26.
TGM has made some changes, that have made the tuning easier to do.
It was a nightmare to tune before, as one band greatly influenced the other.
Regardless of the changes TGM has made, or how "nice a guy" Tom is (whatever that has to do with anything), the laws of Physics can not be changed.
It is quite simply, much too small to have little, if any gain, over a dipole.

So, when you come here to EHAM, and start making claims of even 1 to 2 S Units difference (6 to 12 db) between your little TGM 26 POS Glorified Dummy Load Antenna, and a "reference dipole", please do not "freak out" when your claims are challenged.

It is NOT "personal" Mike  Smiley
Hell, the other day, someone said to me "Chris, your Kenwood TS 850 S WAS a great radio, in it's day, but it is a POS now, by today's standards"

I think your TGM MQ 26 is a POS, and little more then a glorified, expensive, rotating dummy load, with less gain then a dipole.

In fact, there is a review here on EHam where the Ham  had a TGM MQ 26, then put a Cobbweb antenna in it's place. The Cobbweb Antenna is an array of 1/2 wave dipoles that have been folded, into a square that is 1/8 wave per side.
Not surprisingly to me, this Ham reports vastly better performance for the Cobbweb Antenna, vs the TGM MQ 26.












Logged
KD2CJJ
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2013, 07:54:48 AM »

Well....  It is what it is... Works better than my fan dipole and my end fed, I guess those were/are worse dummy loads.  Maybe next year I will upgrade again to something else that finally wont be a dummy load..
Logged

73

Mike
KD2CJJ
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!