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Author Topic: Professional Women reject Ham Radio. As they should  (Read 61032 times)

Posts: 1547


« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2015, 11:18:36 PM »

I tried talking my wife into getting her ticket she said no way ham radio to her is glorified cb radio and she wants no part of it. Her experience with radio have been with me and repeaters and over the years the repeater cops I have ran into again she wants no part of it.Just saying.. Every take care and be safe..   10-4 over and out.

Posts: 729

« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2015, 10:15:56 AM »

What has really changed in HAM radio is that education levels of amateurs have diminished.  You don't have the professional levels that were once attracted to the hobby.  Listen to some of the conversations on the bands and you will rapidly come to the conclusion that there are many stupid people lurking around.  Intelligent women are not interested in conversing with stupid men.  As a matter of fact, intelligent men are not interested in conversing with stupid men.  Thus HAM radio does not attract people with higher intellect and the degradation will continue.  Finding really intelligent people to speak to on HAM radio is like finding an Oasis in the desert without a map or a compass; your thirst is only quenched by chance. 
  And you, of course, are one of the Mensa candidates. 

Posts: 729

« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2015, 10:23:12 AM »

Still, when said and done the collective of this forum can't come up with more than a half dozen professionally accomplished women in ham radio.

So, what is the argument.
  I know several, and the LAST thing I would do is expose their identity  to someone like Mike, who has his own page in the DSM V.

Posts: 166

« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2015, 02:34:12 PM »

Looked at another way, how many women go into engineering as a profession?

When my XYL was involved with the Institution of Electrical Engineers 'WISE' (Women in Science and Engineering) programme, she gave a talk at a school. A mother asked her 'Why do you want to encourage my daughter to go into engineering? She'll just take a job away from my son'. Certainly, at my wife's school back in the 70's, going into engineering was not encouraged at all.....

One argument against women being encouraged into engineering is 'Why do you want to encourage them into a profession which is relatively poorly paid and of low status?' One answer is that it is generally better paid than most occupations for women..........we had an engineer who wrote test programs for ICs. She had a PhD in astrophysics and writing test programs was the only job she could get...

I worked at a big multi-national electronics company. One of the establishments called for a temporary typist: she appeared and was given a very mathematical report to type and a telephone number to call the engineer author if there was a problem. She called the number, the engineer appeared and asked what the problem was.

"You see her where you start this integration? When you get down to here (bottom of next page) this is wrong. It should be this, and that alters the whole argument".

After an explanation, the engineer agrees  and then there is an inquest - just how the hell did a temporary typist know all this mathematics?

At which she confesses that she has a First Class Honours Degree from Cambridge in Mathematics and is just doing the temp typist job so she can work part time and take her daughter to school and pick her up afterwards.

Showing an incredible amount of common sense, the company pretty well immediately  took her on as a permanent employee mathematician on limited hours and full employee benefits......

But very few women go into engineering as career. Arguably, because they are brighter than us men.....


Posts: 2173

« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2015, 05:39:08 PM »

But very few women go into engineering as career. Arguably, because they are brighter than us men.....

While that may seem a little funny, I can actually believe it. My graduating class had about 40 students. 3 were women. They finished in class ranking 1,2,and 4. And all have gone on to great careers.

73, Stan
Walk a mile in my shoes BEFORE you tell me how bad they are.

Posts: 869

« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2015, 05:52:28 PM »

The notion that everybody is exactly the same is presented as dogma this day and time for whatever reason. Sure, there are a few women who get in to ham radio, hunting, or rebuilding Powerstrokes.  But, in general women have different interests.

Posts: 1547


« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2015, 10:33:45 PM »

But, in general women have different interests.

This reply is the truth. Well said . Men are from Mars women are from Venus

Posts: 263

« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2015, 08:32:40 AM »

Oh, look.... somebody found a 2-year-old dried up turd and gave it a new punch bowl to float in.

Love it!!!!
Something tells me, with your use of that particular image, that you're NOT 65 years old
and licensed 'back when we had to go to the FCC office to take an exam"

 Grin Grin

Posts: 263

« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2015, 08:41:08 AM »

Pat, you're exactly right ---

Women _are_ more often the kids caregivers - my XYL (who has no interest in radio or anything else technical, but is an RN-BSN) is like that.
She will drop anything to do something _for_ one of our boys.
I will much more often tell them how to do it themselves and then _make them_ do it for themselves.

So I think they do have a different neuron connection left to right side --
I really do need to research that though -- that's a fascinating premise, and it's one of those things that really does make some sense but is often not widely accepted knowledge - yet.

Kind of like how the 'hunter-gatherer' role and the 'cook-childcare-tent-keeper' role
was not thought of and then not accepted for many years, but which also explains much about how two different kinds of people exist...and is now widely accepted and understood.

My wife does a lot of consulting work in “male – female collaboration” in the workplace and also from a personal relationship basis. At the ripe age of 54, and since we’ve only been married three years I can say I have learned a lot from her in a short amount of time. Much of my ability to absorb it (as I understand the brain science) is that we guys literally (physically) have less neurons connecting both left and right cranial lobes. I promise this is not a troll – just stating superficially what I know, which is still very little. I’m told testosterone blocks the connections and that by the time you are older, say 40+ the lower testosterone allows the connections to increase.

The lack of them in the first place is not necessarily bad, we guys are really a focused lot, that’s why we can’t find our keys if we’re looking in the wrong room – or we can’t find our grey shirt because it’s really colored black. But, we do get a lot of stuff done! Anyway, when you hit your 40’s you seem to shed a few more tears for the downtrodden, or have more compassion for your fellow human in general. So I tend to believe these little factoids are more true than not. I mention all this because brain science probably explains the number of women in the hobby - I just don't know how.

But not just the hobby, what about professional car mechanics? Or, other interesting tid-bits - I am in a bluegrass band, I'm an amateur radio operator, and my career is in information technology. If I stand around 3 other guys and just chit chat, there's a very high likely hood someone else is a ham and someone else plays an instrument! It just is what it is and the inclination to pursue probably has nothing to do with their careers - except one possible theory. We're not farmers anymore, so  at the end of the day all we have is an invisible software program to be proud of. You can't hold it, you can't point to it, you can't eat it - and so the job leaves a big void in your creativity. I suggest that's why I'm a musician and a ham radio operator.  Could it be that since women are primary care-givers that this is the over-riding influence of what they pursue? I just suggest that as one theory, I have no idea.

All this to say that our interests do have a degree of physical or possibly chemical explanation. I have heard some argue that women may feel intimidated by men – but what about on CW? On CW I go by “Pat” because, well, it’s shorter. I’ve never experienced any backtalk from anyone, and nobody ever asked me out on a date, either!  So I don’t think that’s it.

I know that there is a female led organization that is insisting STEM interests are either encouraged or blocked at a young age. While I’m sure there is some of that going on I completely disagree it is the main reason. I think we are naturally going to migrate to whatever appeals to us. If a girl steers towards a doll I don’t think it’s because she’s dressed in pink. If she steers towards the fire engine I don’t think it’s because her parents have convinced her it’s more fun.

In short, I don’t have the answer other than to say it’s more than likely not very externally influenced. We can do things to improve the situation; but I doubt the FCC is going to take away our bands because of it – so, I won’t worry so much about it.  Grin

Patrick KM5L


Posts: 1553

« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2015, 11:12:14 AM »

It's been said that in social settings, women rapport while men report....."great game last night, XYZ threw for 200 yards, this linear cranks out a full gallon with ease, this Elecraft is a zillion dB better than that Icom", etc.  Women enjoy the engagement itself, rather than the facts and figures of a situation.  I've seen some very impressive women at Dayton, hams themselves, who were delightful to talk to.  Never once do I remember conversations about numbers, "this radio is better than that one", "can't wait to get my hands on that new flux capacitor roofing filter"....  But, they were much more socially adept than were the men in their presence.  I guess that's what we like about them so much...girls rule.

Posts: 4710

« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2015, 02:59:10 PM »

Looked at another way, how many women go into engineering as a profession?

Peggy Seeger wrote a song about it:

I'm Gonna Be An Engineer

When I was a little girl I wished I was a boy
 I tagged along behind the gang and wore my corduroys.
 Everybody said I only did it to annoy
 But I was gonna be an engineer
Mamma said, "Why can't you be a lady?
 Your duty is to make me the mother of a pearl
 Wait until you're older, dear
 And maybe you'll be glad that you're a girl.
Dainty as a Dresden statue, gentle as a Jersey cow,
 Smooth as silk, gives cream and milk
 Learn to coo, learn to moo
 That's what you do to be a lady, now.
When I went to school I learned to write and how to read
 History, geography and home economy
 And typing is a skill that every girl is sure to need
 To while away the extra time until the time to breed
 And then they had the nerve to ask, what would I like to be?
 I says, "I'm gonna be an engineer!"
"No, you only need to learn to be a lady
 The duty isn't yours, for to try to run the world
 An engineer could never have a baby
 Remember, dear, that you're a girl"
She's smart --- for a woman.
 I wonder how she got that way?
 You get no choice, you get no voice
 Just stay mum, pretend you're dumb.
 That's how you come to be a lady, today.
Well, I started as a typist but I studied on the sly
 Working out the day and night so I could qualify
 And every time the boss came in, he pinched me on the thigh
 Said, "I've never had an engineer!"
 "You owe it to the job to be a lady
 The duty of the staff is to give the boss a whirl
 The wages that you get are crummy, maybe
 But it's all you get, 'cause you're a girl"
Then Jimmy came along and we set up a conjugation
 We were busy every night with loving recreation
 I spent my days at work so he could get an education
 And now he's an engineer!
He said: "I know you'll always be a lady
 The duty of my darling is to love me all her life
 Could an engineer look after or obey me?
 Remember, dear, that you're my wife! "
As soon a Jimmy got a job, I studied hard again
 Then busy at me turret-lathe a year or two, and then
 The morning that the twins were born, Jimmy says to them
 "Your mother was an engineer!"
 "You owe it to the kids to be a lady
 Dainty as a dish-rag, faithful as a chow
 Stay at home, you got to mind the baby
 Remember you're a mother now! "
Every time I turn around there's something else to do
 Cook a meal or mend a sock or sweep a floor or two
 Listening to Jimmy Young - it makes me want to spew
 I was gonna be an engineer.
I only wish that I could be a lady
 I'd do the lovely things that a lady's s'posed to do
 I wouldn't even mind if only they would pay me
 Then I could be a person too.
What price for a woman?
 You can buy her for a ring of gold,
 To love and obey, without any pay,
 You get a cook and a nurse for better or worse
 You don't need a purse when a lady is sold.
Oh, but now the times are harder and me Jimmy's got the sack;
 I went down to Vicker's, they were glad o have me back.
 But I'm a third-class citizen, my wages tell me that
 But I'm a first-class engineer!
The boss he says "We pay you as a lady,
 You only got the job because I can't afford a man,
 With you I keep the profits high as may be,
 You're just a cheaper pair of hands. "
You got one fault, you're a woman;
 You're not worth the equal pay.
 A bitch or a tart, you're nothing but heart,
 Shallow and vain, you've got no brain,
Even go down the drain like a lady today!
Well, I listened to my mother and I joined a typing pool
 Listened to my lover and I put him through his school
 If I listen to the boss, I'm just a bloody fool
 And an underpaid engineer
 I been a sucker ever since I was a baby
 As a daughter, as a wife, as a mother, as a dear
 But I'll fight them as a woman, not a lady
 I'll fight them as an engineer!
Words and music by Peggy Seeger in 1970
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