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Author Topic: AF board in Kenwood TS830S  (Read 3057 times)
K0GWD
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Posts: 17




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« on: March 19, 2013, 02:51:29 PM »

Hi gang I have a KW TS830S and am having a low voltage problem in the AF board. I have discovered that my AF board and one I have purchased are not quite the same, even tho they both bear the same number. My AF board has Q14 and associated components installed the one I purchased does not have Q14 or associated components. Can anyone tell me the difference, and where I can get a schematic that shows Q14. The Schematic I have is from K4EAA and does not show Q14 installed. Thanks k0gwd
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KE4DRN
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 03:15:20 PM »

Hi George,

I don't own the 830S,
service manuals in pdf no cost

http://www.n6wk.com/kenwood/

join other kenwood 5xx and 8xx hybrid fans

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TS-520_820_530_830/

73 james
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K0GWD
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 12:59:24 PM »

Thanks James,
Gordon N6wk sent me a schematic that shows the Q14 transistor installed, but so small I cant read it even with magnifier. Also the parts list is cut off the download. So I really dont know if the parts on the board are the same as the parts on the board without Q14. I didn't realise that there were two versions of the AF board. Just thought perhaps someone on the forum might know what the difference is.
73
George
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KA5N
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Posts: 4380




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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 03:35:49 PM »

One of most common problems with the TS-830S is bad ground connectons.  Often these
problems can be cured by tightening the screws which hold the pcb boards in place.  Sometimes the star washers are missing etc.  I bought a nice second hand 830 a few years
back and the low voltage regulator was not properly soldered.  So a redo on the regulator,
cleaning the rails where the boards mount to, adding a couple of missing star washers and
a general retighting of all mounting screws and viola! The old soldier has worked without
problems for the last four years.
73   Allen KA5N
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 03:37:58 PM by KA5N » Logged
KE4DRN
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Posts: 3729




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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 03:59:57 PM »

Allen is correct about the ground screws on the boards,
best practice with these fine hybrid radios is to give a good
cleaning of the switches and bandswitch, using Deoxit or your
favorite contact cleaner, just the smallest amount, don't let it
wick into the pc board or the wafers on the bandswitch.

You may want to check the solder joints for the pins on the
pc board that mate to the cable connectors, many owners have
found cracked solder joints and once repaired  you are back on the air.

73 james
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3900




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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 09:54:18 AM »

GWD:  I have also found the grounding of the PCBs to be a problem.  There wasn't any star washers on mine at all.  I installed some which cleared up a problem I was having.

Another problem that quite often comes up is the 4PDT RLY1 on the AF board.  If the contacts on this relay develop a high resistance it can cause all kinds of problems.  Before I would get too deep into chasing down this low voltage problem I'd clean up this relay.

The relay has a clear plastic cover over the relay itself.  It pops off if you can get a sharp knife blade between the cover and the black relay body.  The only way to clean the contacts is to put contact cleaner on them and work the relay by pushing down repeatedly on the armature.  Don't attempt to burnish the contacts in any way.  They're simply too delicate.

If you find it necessary to remove the board to get to the relay cover joint, There are 5 screws holding the board in place.  Two on the heatsink, one toward the front of the board, a long one at one corner and the second long one in the top edge of the board.  These two long screws have a plastic insulator between the screw head and the PCB. 

I'm telling you this because the first time I removed this board I removed several other PCB screws and unplugged all of the cables, which wasn't necessary.

You might want to make a note that this relay can be replaced with a Aromat NF4EB-12v which is a direct direct drop in.  They're still available from $10 to $25 ea.

 
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WA2CWA
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 01:38:05 PM »

The TS-830S AF Unit board has the Part # X49-1140-00. I checked all of the issues of the TS-830S service manual and none of them had a Q14 on the AF Unit board. I also checked the TS-830S schematics that Gordon posted on this web site, including the ones in the manuals, and no AF Unit board has Q14 shown.

Pete, wa2cwa
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K0GWD
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 05:41:15 PM »

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the information. Gordon has informed me that the early 830s had the Q14 in the board, he said the later ones did not. He sent me a
schematic with Q14 in there, but so small I could not read it. He said something about a service manual with -00 but I can not find a copy anywhere. I migjht have known that I would have the only one in existance HI HI. My biggest concern is that there might be other components  different also. Were you aware that there were differences in the AF board? I was not till now.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer. You were the only one that addressed the Q14 issue.
George K0GWD
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WA2CWA
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 12:25:31 PM »

There were three issues for the service manual. Part # B51-0916-00, B51-0916-10, and B51-0916-20. The "-00" was only around for about a year (if that), the "-10" was around the longest (it also says "Revised" in the upper left front cover), and the "-20" (says "Third edition" in the upper left front cover) documented several more changes not covered in the revised ("-10") edition. However, none of these changes, corrections, additions, deletions, updates, etc. were ever listed in either manual so the only way you find out about them is when you are doing some troubleshooting. Some of the changes/updates/etc. were documented in service bulletins which eventually rolled into actual production changes and eventually into the next issue of the service manual. As far as I can tell, Kenwood's TS-830 boards were never updated with a different dash number (-00, -10, -20, etc.) when a change was made to the board.

In looking at the AF Unit assembly board drawing in my (-10 and -20) editions, there are some unused plated holes and traces where your Q14 (and maybe some components) might have been originally placed. With both boards (yours and new) oriented the same way (viewing from the component side, it seems that to the right of Q13 and C49 might be the area. It's only a guess, but it seems like a logical place. You can manually trace the printed wiring paths and maybe add some light to the schematic Gordon sent you. Personally, if I were you, I would install the new board and put your old board aside (maybe use the spare components for a possible later repair).

There were several service bulletins covering changes to the AF Unit Board over its life and most likely you probably have some of them (if not all) in the new board you have. There was a service bulletin (SB-847R), Low Voltage Supply Optional Improvements (power supply drift and stability improved) that changed  some values of resistors, added a resistor across both Q30 and Q34 (collector to emitter), and also changed a diode. There was also a service bulletin to improve the noise blanker performance.

Pete, wa2cwa
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K0GWD
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 05:01:59 PM »

Thanks Pete,

I dont think my post was clear and for this I apoligize. I have lost 12Volt dc at terminal 12 and of course there is no 9 volt dc at tp6 either.
There is about 19 volts dc at 14a. My biggest problem is the fact that the board in my 830 is not the same as those in most 830. I was not aware of this untill now. I purchased a AF board from Bob Mansker and when it arrived I first thought someone may have removed Q14. After closer inspection I reliased that it had never been there. There is a cable of three wires soldered to terminal 12 on the board in my 830 and only one on the board I purchased. Somehow I have got to get a better schematic so I know what is going on. Thanks a million for enlightening me. Do you know where I can get ahold of a copy of service man -00. Without a parts list for my board I don't even know if all the other components are the same. I dont want to replace components on my board that may be the wrong ones called out for the later boards.
Thanks again much appreciated.
God Bless 73 George K0GWD
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WA2CWA
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 12:48:16 PM »

Gordon sent you the schematic; maybe he has the "-00" service manual. Personally, I would replace the old board with the newer board and see if all functions work as described.

Pete, wa2cwa
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K0GWD
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2013, 08:22:58 PM »

Hi Pete,
Sorry this is so late. I did as you suggested and put the later version board in. Here is whaT i GOT. i NOW HAVE 12 VOLTS AT TERMINAL 12
9 VOLTS AT TP6. tHERE IS NO AUDIO AT ALL THE METER DOES NOT FUNCTION IN ANY POSITION. The light in the digital readout came on and rthe readout displayed a frequency in the band the band switch is swet on but will not read up or down. I have 2 of these later boards and put both of them in and both displayed the same symptoms. Thanks so much for your time and expertise.
George k0gwd
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