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Author Topic: Best vertical for 10-80 meters  (Read 2920 times)
KT4DLB
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Posts: 76




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« on: March 22, 2013, 09:46:39 AM »

Right now I'm using a G5RV Junior for 6-40 meters and a MFJ-945E antenna tuner. The tuner bought new don't work and its on the way back to HRO. I'm seem to be recieving good on the G5RV from what I'm hearing. But thinking a vertical might do better for me. It will be connected to a FT-897D.

73's

Lamar
KK4NZO
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W5CPT
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Posts: 557




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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 10:20:16 AM »

More information is required to answer your question.

Are you going to ground mount it? Do you have enough room for radials?
Are there children and/or pets in the area? <= Safety concern.

Do you require a mast mount antenna (no ground radials)?

A ground mounted antenna such as the Butternut HF6V with a proper radial field is superior to a mast mounted multi-band HF antenna.
That does not mean that a mast mounted vertical will not work, as there are many on the market - check the GAP line for one.

Warning - there are also some multi-band HF verticals that are no more than an air cooled dummy loads. Meaning they use a resistive load in the base of the antenna to present a constant load to the transmitter and most of the signal is dissipated in the resister not the atmosphere.

So give some details and I (and others, I am sure) will make some recommendations with pluses and minuses of our choices.

Clint - W5CPT -

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KF7CG
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 10:33:47 AM »

I can't vouch for my new vertical yet, not enough operating time. It is a Gap Titan DX that has full coverage on 40 through 10 meters, and 100KHz or a little more on 80 meters. From what little I have used it is will be good.

Previously I used an MF&-1798, their 10 band "inverted" vertical, it work well but with lesser bandwidths on 80, 40, and 30 meters. It performed well as an antenna, but was susceptible to wind damage and I was having to bring it down from its 25 foot mount and repair it about once a year. If you don't have strong and gusty winds it will work very well.

Both of these verticals require no radials but do have counterpoise hats. The MFJ wants to be mounted as high as you can put it. The Gap doesn't require that much height and would like as little as six feet, I would go to 10 feet for safety.

KF7CG
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NK7Z
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 10:41:46 AM »

Right now I'm using a G5RV Junior for 6-40 meters and a MFJ-945E antenna tuner. The tuner bought new don't work and its on the way back to HRO. I'm seem to be recieving good on the G5RV from what I'm hearing. But thinking a vertical might do better for me. It will be connected to a FT-897D.

73's

Lamar
KK4NZO

I have a multi-page review of the GAP Challenger at http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/

I like it for 40 and 20, but for 75, 15, and 10, so so...
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W9PMZ
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »

So what do you mean by the tuner isn't working correctly?

Otherwise for a vertical you will need radials, elevated or laid on the ground.  The more the better.

Verticals without radials do work but at a cost of actual radiated power.

There are a multitide of verticals on the market and they all are worthy of consideration.  But if you are looking for a cost effective solution look at the Hustler 5BTV.  They are well built and reasonable in cost.  But they do require radials.

Remember also that on 80M any vertical will have a very narrow bandwidth.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
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NK7Z
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 07:52:26 PM »


Otherwise for a vertical you will need radials, elevated or laid on the ground.  The more the better.


The Gap is a vertical dipole and as such needs no radials.  The three wires under the Gap Challenger, are for 40 meters, and are there to add capacity to better tune the antenna...
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W5LZ
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 03:33:24 AM »

If I could have any vertical 10 - 80 meter antenna it would be a 'Hi-Tower'.  They are nothing fancy, but aren't cheap.  They require a nice ground radial system which is usually a PITA, but they work very well.
 - Paul
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NK7Z
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 08:33:11 AM »

If I could have any vertical 10 - 80 meter antenna it would be a 'Hi-Tower'.  They are nothing fancy, but aren't cheap.  They require a nice ground radial system which is usually a PITA, but they work very well.
 - Paul


I have ALWAYS waned a HiTower... 
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KT4DLB
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Posts: 76




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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »

The tuner needles doesn't move at all when trying to tune the antenna or get a SWR reading. It was brand new so I sent it back to HRO for a new one. I'm just thinking about if the G5RV and tuner duo don't work out. what vertical  might be the best to go with if i can afford it.


73's

Lamar
KK4NZO
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W9PMZ
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »

Back to the tuner.  What kind of rig are you using?  Most newer rigs have a SWR meter built in. Was the rig indicating output power? 

Honestly if you are going to have an antenna of a short size, I'd rather use a dipole than a vertical. Since I have no trees a vertical is what I use. I have 80 33' radials on the ground and it works pretty good on all bands.

But, I still would rather have a dipole up 35 to 40 feet.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
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KK4APV
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 11:10:57 AM »

I've got a Comet CHA-250b and I'm disappointed in it. If it had cost $50, I probably would have been a lot happier with it.  Undecided

With that Comet, I've made contacts in Tokyo and Australia (which ain't too shabby), but as a primary antenna it's pretty meager.  It seems to "skip" the continental US.

It's mounted on my chimney, so it's up about 25 feet in the air. The good news is, it can withstand wind gusts up to 80 mph (and maybe more). And it is a pretty antenna, so that's worth something.  Roll Eyes

As I recall, I paid almost $400 for it.
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KB6HRT
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Posts: 101




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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 08:53:39 PM »

I have tried an installed most of the more popular verticals over the years, The one that I liked least was the GAP 6-80m vertical was time consuming setting up correctly, performance on 75m band was down lots at this QTH.  If I were to buy a vertical today, would be the Zero Five, get what you pay for and then some, would ask TOM his thoughts on what would work best for my application.  Myself have had an used the 27' Vertical 10-40 ( it does 75m as well an its down just a little) ground plane. Now use a Zero Five 43' vertical 10-160m with 3000'+ of ground radials. Did modified my antenna with a 10-80m mobil screwdriver antenna in series with the 43' stinger, Its easy to raise an lower an no guying required, have shortened it to 33' one weekend when working strictly 75m that weekend, very easy antenna to work on  use it at 43' most all the time but does offer flexibility, so you can try different things with the antenna. It has seen 75+ mph winds, still looks new after 4 years.  It's a quite vertical antenna on lower bands 75m-160m by design, does requirer your radios AT mostly for 160m after its setup correctly, narrow banded on 160m.........KB6HRT
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N4FZ
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 03:54:40 PM »

I've bought a HF9V in 2009, and have worked the world with it. I have it ground mounted with 25, 33' radials and 2, 66' radials for 80m. It is 26' tall, is SWR 2:1 or less, on all bands, weighs 14lbs. Many DXpeditions use them, including the recent 9M4 West Malaysia Dxped. with good results.  Wink
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WB0FDJ
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Posts: 141




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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 11:24:55 AM »

Lamar

If you want scientific, impartial information on the performance of some of the commercially available HF vertical antennas you will definitely want to read:

HF Vertical Performance, Test Methods and results. Available through Champion Radio Products.

It's written by Ward Silver (the QST columnist) and Steve Morris. They did careful testing on a variety of verticals, (including Hustler 6BVT, Butternut, Diamond CP-6, Gap Titan and Cushcraft R-8 and a few others) against ground mounted quarter wave reference antennas fed over 64 radials. I recommend it not only for the results, so that antennas can be objectively compared but also for the excellent discussion of the testing methods, which I found educational. I am using it to plan my next antenna purchase. It would likely answer many of your questions about vertical antennas. I'm the first one to ask other ops about their antennas but you can't beat the kind of data that the authors produced.

There were some interesting and surprising results. Just one: the relatively small CP-6 produced a measurably better signal on 80 meters than the Titan. Who'd have thought?

Good luck, 73. Doc WB0FDJ
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