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Author Topic: Moral implications of using flagpole antenna?  (Read 11987 times)
WD4ELG
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« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2013, 07:23:36 AM »

Chris, I had forgotten about that X-files episode.  LOL that was a good one.
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NU1O
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2013, 07:56:30 AM »

Chris, I had forgotten about that X-files episode.  LOL that was a good one.

Hi Mark,

I am not a big TV watcher except for the old movies but that was one TV show I watched every week.

I had completely forgotten about the CC&R episode since it was not really a favorite of mine but these posts must have triggered a memory.  I don't think I've watched a regular TV series since that show died out about 15 years ago.

73,

Chris/NU1O

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WD4ELG
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2013, 10:18:41 AM »

It was a classic.  Not much on TV worth watching these days...which is good because it is a distraction from hamming!

Back to the topic of this thread (sorry for the diversion by me), I have seen several websites on the proper way to display and care for the flag.  A really good one talked about when to dispose of the flag when it is deteriorating (and offered to take care of that task as part of ordering a new flag).  http://www.replaceyourflag.com/ 

If a ham chooses to purchase a flagpole antenna and decides to fly the American flag, then that ham has an obligation to do it properly.

In fact, why only put up a flagpole antenna?  Why not just put up a flagpole or display one from the porch, without the need for an antenna?  (Flag holder = $8, US Flag $10 at Walmart or Home Depot)?  Our hobby is a great example of the freedoms we enjoy in this country.  How cool would it be if every ham displayed an American flag to reflect this?

OK, enough soapbox.  Back to the rig.
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W9KEY
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Posts: 1130




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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2013, 11:42:19 AM »

Here is an interesting question: How would you feel about this issue if you were assisting a ham in a country outside the USA and he or she wanted to circumvent HOA rules regarding antennas?  If their country had a law prohibiting bans on flying the flag inside that nation  would you help them put up a flagpole antenna? 
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N2RJ
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2013, 12:47:47 PM »

Here is an interesting question: How would you feel about this issue if you were assisting a ham in a country outside the USA and he or she wanted to circumvent HOA rules regarding antennas?  If their country had a law prohibiting bans on flying the flag inside that nation  would you help them put up a flagpole antenna? 

I don't know of any nation like that. In fact, some dictatorships may insist that you display patriotic symbols...
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W9KEY
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 04:13:13 PM »

I don't know of any nation like that. In fact, some dictatorships may insist that you display patriotic symbols...

I am sure many nations have citizens who revere their flag as the symbol of something they hold great and dear.   The question is whether if the flag were not that of your nation, but someone else's nation, would you have the same moral dilemma helping a ham in that nation use a flag-pole loophole to circumvent HOA antenna restrictions?  why or why not?
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NU1O
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« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 10:33:58 PM »

I don't know of any nation like that. In fact, some dictatorships may insist that you display patriotic symbols...

I am sure many nations have citizens who revere their flag as the symbol of something they hold great and dear.   The question is whether if the flag were not that of your nation, but someone else's nation, would you have the same moral dilemma helping a ham in that nation use a flag-pole loophole to circumvent HOA antenna restrictions?  why or why not?


The French Tricolour is a flag I think the people of French would be very proud of but I see three problems with helping somebody with a flag in a foreign country:

1. Americans generally don't like it when foreigners interfere in our internal politics and I think that view is true in reverse.

2. If you're are actually talking about travelling to a foreign country, as opposed to helping over the internet, the person involved could find themself involved in a nasty political dispute in which they would not have any of the rights they are accustomed to in the USA.

3. I don't think most free countries fly the flag as we do in the US. I often hear this complaint when the Olympics are held in the US and everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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2E0OZI
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« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2013, 03:06:37 AM »

I'm outside the US.  Grin Here we dont look on the Union flag the same way as you do with your flag. It's still considered a bit ostentatious to fly the flag on  pole outside your house...although oddly enough I see plenty of Cornish flags (the cross of St Piran) flown over the border in Cornwall. If you know your history of the British Isles you would understand why.  Wink

To circumvent a covenant on the property? Caveat emptor I would say. But I think a "no antennas" covenant here would have lawyers rubbing thier hands with glee!
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
George Orwell
W9KEY
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« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2013, 08:07:01 AM »

I don't know of any nation like that. In fact, some dictatorships may insist that you display patriotic symbols...

I am sure many nations have citizens who revere their flag as the symbol of something they hold great and dear.   The question is whether if the flag were not that of your nation, but someone else's nation, would you have the same moral dilemma helping a ham in that nation use a flag-pole loophole to circumvent HOA antenna restrictions?  why or why not?


The French Tricolour is a flag I think the people of French would be very proud of but I see three problems with helping somebody with a flag in a foreign country:

1. Americans generally don't like it when foreigners interfere in our internal politics and I think that view is true in reverse.

2. If you're are actually talking about travelling to a foreign country, as opposed to helping over the internet, the person involved could find themself involved in a nasty political dispute in which they would not have any of the rights they are accustomed to in the USA.

3. I don't think most free countries fly the flag as we do in the US. I often hear this complaint when the Olympics are held in the US and everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

73,

Chris/NU1O

In both cases I would have no qualms.  You would be helping a person put up a flag-POLE which would also serve as an antenna on their property.  Any legal, political, religious, or mythological value given to the flag they might fly from it would be for them to consider.

Now if the person planned to fly the flag of a sports team that was the arch-enemy of one of MY favorite sports teams and I knew that -- NO WAY I would help them put up a flag-pole  Wink Grin Cheesy Wink

joking aside, I too welcome the response of hams from outside the USA such as the one Scott (2E0OZI ) in England recently added.

 
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NU1O
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« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2013, 08:42:45 AM »

I'm outside the US.  Grin Here we dont look on the Union flag the same way as you do with your flag. It's still considered a bit ostentatious to fly the flag on  pole outside your house...although oddly enough I see plenty of Cornish flags (the cross of St Piran) flown over the border in Cornwall. If you know your history of the British Isles you would understand why.  Wink

To circumvent a covenant on the property? Caveat emptor I would say. But I think a "no antennas" covenant here would have lawyers rubbing thier hands with glee!

In the US the American flag borders on a type of religious symbol.  If somebody burns one or steps on one violence is liable to result.

Without going into a long history lesson can you kindly explain why the Union Jack is not displayed as prominently as the American flag?  It is the flag of United Kingdom just as the US flag is the flag of the USA.
So, why the difference in the way they are displayed?

73,

Chris/NU1O


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N2RJ
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« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 09:20:54 AM »

I don't know of any nation like that. In fact, some dictatorships may insist that you display patriotic symbols...

I am sure many nations have citizens who revere their flag as the symbol of something they hold great and dear.   The question is whether if the flag were not that of your nation, but someone else's nation, would you have the same moral dilemma helping a ham in that nation use a flag-pole loophole to circumvent HOA antenna restrictions?  why or why not?


I don't know really.

Also, in many other countries they aren't uptight about "property value" and "eyesores."  I have a friend in 9Y who has an antenna that overhangs over his neighbor's house... not just his property, but his house. And there is NO problem at all with the neighbor, who isn't into ham radio AT ALL.

Sometimes you gotta live and let live.
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W6UV
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Posts: 540




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« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2013, 10:14:49 AM »

It seems to me when a ham's basic right to pursue happiness is infringed upon by some HOA that does not appreciate the need for a ham to put up an antenna on his own property

But didn't that ham voluntarily agree to the CC&Rs restricting his ability to put up an antenna when he purchased the property?
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W9KEY
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« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2013, 12:40:58 PM »

But didn't that ham voluntarily agree to the CC&Rs restricting his ability to put up an antenna when he purchased the property?

he could be a kid living in the home.  maybe it is a grandparent who needs to move in with his kids.  maybe she is an adult who was bit by the ham bug after buying the property.

but, taking your premise as a starting point -- maybe this person had a dual-use flagpole in mind when buying the property  Wink
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NI0C
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« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2013, 03:00:35 PM »

Quote
everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

Well, I'm a US citizen and am turned off by this type of chanting as well.  I was particularly appalled by such chanting that occurred in the run up to the shameful 2003 invasion of Iraq. 
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KD0UN
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« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2013, 05:41:42 PM »

When you ask people "How ya doin?"   They really want to tell you.   I'm not usually looking for that level of honesty.
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