Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Moral implications of using flagpole antenna?  (Read 9821 times)
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2662




Ignore
« on: March 26, 2013, 03:14:53 PM »

I was just reading KA3NRX's question about the MFJ apartment antenna for when he moves into his duplex.  Ordinarily I just chuckle when somebody suggests camouflaging a ham radio antenna as an American flag but W1VT cited the "Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2006" as a legal reason to show the American flag. That act of Congess was passed to make sure Americans could display their flag, not a flagpole, and it most certainly was not passed as a way to circumvent a CC&R or HOA restriction using a flag as a disguise for an antenna.

My question is a simple one:  Is anybody offended by the practice of disguising an Amateur Radio antenna as an American flag?

KA3NRX and others who move to antenna restricted areas do so knowing ahead of time they aren't supposed to install outdoor antennas.  Would it be advisable uder those conditions to simply rely on an indoor antenna as it appears he is planning to do?

A few months back I asked a question in this forum as to whether I should lay down some ground radials in my neighbor's backyard when he moves in a few years but before the new owner has moved in. Opinions were mixed but I decided against the idea for two reasons. First of all, it is not my property, and secondly, as somebody wisely pointed out, the radials could surface over time and there is always the chance of an accident for which I'd be responsible.

My question for the group is are there hams who have a problem with using an American flag as camouflage for an outdoor antenna?  Also, how would it look if it became public knowledge that hundreds, or thousands of hams, had erected flagpoles not so much for patriotic reasons but because it allowed them to have a more efficient outdoor antenna which in most of these cases is specifically prohibited?


73,

Chris/NU1O
Logged
NU4B
Member

Posts: 2221




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 03:24:36 PM »

Isn't the flagpole the disguise, not the flag?

Short answer - No, I don't see the issue here.
Logged
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2662




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 03:35:56 PM »

Isn't the flagpole the disguise, not the flag?

Short answer - No, I don't see the issue here.

Go erect a pole in your restricted yard without a flag and see how far you get.  The American flag is what is used to "sell" this to the neighbors.

73,

Chris/NU1O
Logged
W2IRT
Member

Posts: 2636


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 03:42:11 PM »

So long as the flag itself is not being disrespected I can't see a problem from anybody else's point of view (personally I don't give a damn, but many do and you sure don't want to attract any unwanted attention). That means lowering it at night or lighting it, and all the other related flag-related miscellania.

That said, you may be liable for breach of contract if your lease specifies no antennae, or worse, transmitting not permitted on premises. But honestly, unless you plan to run power and an improperly grounded station, you should be able to have a modicum of success, again, provided a big radial field is installed. Good luck with that, eh.
Logged

www.facebook.com/W2IRT
Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
K6UJ
Member

Posts: 311




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 03:46:49 PM »

I dont see the issue either.  I have the American flag flying from the top of my
mast that projects above my tribander.  I first put the flag up on the 4th of July and took it down one week later.  My neighbor asked why I took it down, said he likes it flying.
I put it back up and had it up daily for about 5 months.  The flag was getting raggedy around the edges so I took it down until I could get another.  Two weeks later I still hadn't put up a new flag and several more neighbors asked where the flag was.  I put up a new one and have been flying one ever since.  Is anyone offended by my having a dual purpose antenna structure, one for my ham antenna, and one for flying the American flag ?  No of course not, actually the opposite has occurred.  

Bob
K6UJ
Logged
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2662




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 03:55:15 PM »

I dont see the issue either.  I have the American flag flying from the top of my
mast that projects above my tribander.  I first put the flag up on the 4th of July and took it down one week later.  My neighbor asked why I took it down, said he likes it flying.
I put it back up and had it up daily for about 5 months.  The flag was getting raggedy around the edges so I took it down until I could get another.  Two weeks later I still hadn't put up a new flag and several more neighbors asked where the flag was.  I put up a new one and have been flying one ever since.  Is anyone offended by my having a dual purpose antenna structure, one for my ham antenna, and one for flying the American flag ?  No of course not, actually the opposite has occurred.  

Bob
K6UJ
Bob,

It doesn't sound like you are in an area which restricts antennas since you have a visible tribander.

I am specifically talking about people who erect a flagpole antenna so they may get around a restriction. 

73,

Chris/NU1O
Logged
NU4B
Member

Posts: 2221




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 04:15:01 PM »

I dont see the issue either.  I have the American flag flying from the top of my
mast that projects above my tribander.  I first put the flag up on the 4th of July and took it down one week later.  My neighbor asked why I took it down, said he likes it flying.
I put it back up and had it up daily for about 5 months.  The flag was getting raggedy around the edges so I took it down until I could get another.  Two weeks later I still hadn't put up a new flag and several more neighbors asked where the flag was.  I put up a new one and have been flying one ever since.  Is anyone offended by my having a dual purpose antenna structure, one for my ham antenna, and one for flying the American flag ?  No of course not, actually the opposite has occurred.  

Bob
K6UJ
Bob,

It doesn't sound like you are in an area which restricts antennas since you have a visible tribander.

I am specifically talking about people who erect a flagpole antenna so they may get around a restriction. 

73,

Chris/NU1O


Maybe you need to think about this differently - isn't this a great reason to display the flag?
Logged
NU1O
Member

Posts: 2662




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 04:57:46 PM »


Maybe you need to think about this differently - isn't this a great reason to display the flag?

No, not in my opinion.  Somebody who never displayed a flag in their adult life and then suddenly decides to erect one so they may have an outdoor antenna in a restricted area is nothing but a hypocrite as far as I'm concerned. 

An American flag should be displayed for patriotic reasons not as camouflage for a stealth antenna.  Also, as W2IRT stated, there is a lot more to displaying a flag than hoisting it up and letting it fly in the wind.

The articles that have plans for flagpole antennae should at least include the proper way to display and care for an American flag.

73,

Chris/NU1O
Logged
N4CR
Member

Posts: 1666




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 05:20:34 PM »

Somebody who never displayed a flag in their adult life and then suddenly decides to erect one so they may have an outdoor antenna in a restricted area is nothing but a hypocrite as far as I'm concerned.

Flying the flag as an excuse to do something else is still flying the flag. As far as everyone in the community is concerned, it becomes their neighborhood flag and a source of pride. It might even become a source of pride for the person flying it. Is any part of that bad? Can you learn to be patriotic, or must you be born with it? How pure do you want their thoughts to be before their flag goes up?

Expecting someone to be patriotic before they raise the flag is like expecting someone to be perfect before they go to church.

A very wise man asked the crowd many centuries ago, "Who amongst you will throw the first stone?". I guess that would be you...
Logged

73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
WD4ELG
Member

Posts: 873




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 05:30:23 PM »

As usual, Chris, your post gives us a lot to think about.  Thanks for that.  And I agree 100% that if a ham is going to use a flagpole as an antenna, at least pay the modicum of respect and fly the flag properly and care for it in the correct manner.  Good suggestion about including instructions with flag pole antennas.

I was an Eagle Scout (learned a LOT about flag decorum), but I was a ham even before that.  When I was first licensed in 1977, I never considered using a flagpole as an antenna.  The flagpole had one purpose - show the flag properly and with pride.

The concept of flagpole antennas appears to have arisen since the whole CC&R coverage has increased.  Or at least the popularity has exploded since the late 1990's.  (The whole CC&R issue will never end.)

What is ironic to me is that CC&R's, which the ham claims are an infringement upon his personal freedom, are being circumvented with a vertical antenna disguised as a flagpole flying our American flag...which is a symbol of personal freedom.  

N4CR, now I am worried.  We have gone from discussing the flying flags to talking about stone-throwing on this thread.  Since my aim is off and I bruise easily, I better finish this thread and head for cover.  Smiley

Perhaps a better flag to be flown on the flagpole would be a "don't tread on me" flag for the CC&R ham, if he wants to give the "middle finger" to the HOA.

(Yes, I live in a CC&R neighborhood.  No, I don't have a flagpole antenna.  Yes, flagpoles are allowed in my neighborhood.  No, I would not use a flagpole as an antenna....just not something I would do, there are easier ways to get on the air.)
Logged
K6UJ
Member

Posts: 311




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 06:06:25 PM »

I dont see the issue either.  I have the American flag flying from the top of my
mast that projects above my tribander.  I first put the flag up on the 4th of July and took it down one week later.  My neighbor asked why I took it down, said he likes it flying.
I put it back up and had it up daily for about 5 months.  The flag was getting raggedy around the edges so I took it down until I could get another.  Two weeks later I still hadn't put up a new flag and several more neighbors asked where the flag was.  I put up a new one and have been flying one ever since.  Is anyone offended by my having a dual purpose antenna structure, one for my ham antenna, and one for flying the American flag ?  No of course not, actually the opposite has occurred.  

Bob
K6UJ
Bob,

It doesn't sound like you are in an area which restricts antennas since you have a visible tribander.

I am specifically talking about people who erect a flagpole antenna so they may get around a restriction. 

73,

Chris/NU1O



Chris,

I think you are digging yourself in a hole.   You asked if someone would be offended
by this, really ?   Whether I lived in a non antenna restricted area or not I would still be proud to fly the American flag from my antenna or antenna support.  Its not about the restrictions............

Bob
K6UJ
Logged
N4CR
Member

Posts: 1666




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2013, 07:29:43 PM »

N4CR, now I am worried.  We have gone from discussing the flying flags to talking about stone-throwing on this thread.  Since my aim is off and I bruise easily, I better finish this thread and head for cover.  Smiley

Sorry, It was an allusion to a bible quote that essentially says only somebody without fault has the right to judge the fault of others. In this case, someone who undoubtedly has faults of his own judging another person flying the flag to hide an antenna.

We are talking about morality here, not facts, so there is no black and white/right or wrong. Morality for honorable people is quite different from morality for dishonorable people. And in 2013, in this gimme gimme gimme United States, morality has been hogtied and left for dead for the most part.

Too bad. This used to be an honorable nation.

But when we have an "elected" government that is printing 1.8 billion dollars a month to inflate the money supply and steal from all of us, some guy running an antenna under a flag pole seems so inconsequential as to be non-existent.

Or maybe I'm missing something.
Logged

73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
KY6R
Member

Posts: 3173


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 07:39:22 PM »

Fly the Jolly Roger and pace back and forth on your front lawn singing Yo Ho Ho at the top of your lungs. Talk to an imaginary parrot on your shoulder.

No one will mess with you.
Logged
AF5CC
Member

Posts: 862




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 09:54:42 PM »

What is ironic to me is that CC&R's, which the ham claims are an infringement upon his personal freedom, are being circumvented with a vertical antenna disguised as a flagpole flying our American flag...which is a symbol of personal freedom.  

I can think of nothing more appropriate!

John AF5CC
Logged
K9AIM
Member

Posts: 1024




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 11:24:07 PM »

Maybe you need to think about this differently - isn't this a great reason to display the flag?

Bingo!  It seems to me when a ham's basic right to pursue happiness is infringed upon by some HOA that does not appreciate the need for a ham to put up an antenna on his own property -- using a flagpole to circumvent the restriction is very appropriate.  Patriotic even  Wink
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!