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Author Topic: UV-5R FOR PART 90 FIRE DEPT USAGE.  (Read 58227 times)
K5BBC
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Posts: 20




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« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2013, 10:05:16 AM »

I'm kind of surprised no firefighters have questioned the entrinsic safety standards aspect of this.  You want to be the guy keying one of these in a combustable atmosphere?
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2013, 04:27:16 PM »

Me thinks you better re-read the thread.  A fire professional (reply 16)  and an EMT (reply 28) both commented.  Negative 'warning' replies citing life safety issues are as follows:  12, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34 and 35.

As to keying one of these in a combustible atmosphere, there is no radio that is sealed specifically for the prevention of that anyway.  Just as any radio transmission near explosive caps may set them off.  Those safety concerns are a part of the hazards of the job--they're taken into account on an incident by incident basis.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 04:48:55 PM by K1CJS » Logged
WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2013, 12:59:42 AM »

K6AER said;
Quote
All two way radios wither part 97 or part 90 are made overseas. Even Motorola's.

Unlike most import radios, Motorola owns and strictly controls the facilities where their products are manufactured.  Profits are also returned to a US manufacturer IN THE US.  Furthermore, those radios are manufactured in a part of the world which has many years experience manufacturing and exporting electronic devices, therefore, employees are experienced and plentiful; NOT the "learn on the job" employees that are, likely, prevalent elsewhere.
And, finally, based on previous exports and even some domestic disasters, IT IS MY OPINION that the work ethic AND management ethic is still far behind other competing regions of the world.  This may well change with time but, again, in my opinion, it has not changed as yet nor do I see change in the immediate future.
Its my firm belief that, if one must buy based solely on price and further devastate our pitiful balance of payments situation, ham radio equipment is the place to do so; NOT in applications where life and property are daily at stake.
Tom
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2013, 01:15:59 AM »

Quote
As to keying one of these in a combustible atmosphere, there is no radio that is sealed specifically for the prevention of that anyway.  Just as any radio transmission near explosive caps may set them off.  Those safety concerns are a part of the hazards of the job--they're taken into account on an incident by incident basis.

Suggest you check Factory Mutual (FM) Intrinsically Safe certification for commercial two way radios made by Harris, Motorola, EF Johnson, Standard and others.  These radios have special cases with positive internal pressure, contacts, seals around knobs and, even, special, non interchangeable batteries.  Furthermore, field personnel are NOT permitted to repair, or even open, these radios; all repairs must be done at factory repair depots or the FM certification is lost.  They are pricey but, what is paid for, IS safety in hazardous environments including flammable gases.
One way to recognize an IS radio is by the GREEN model number label AND a green dot or label on the special battery.
Tom
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1618




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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2013, 03:35:36 AM »

   When ever I pull up to a gas station pump (especially on a hot summer day) and see a person yaking on a cell phone while filling up at the next pump I just keep on going. I call it SI (self insurance).
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2013, 04:22:56 AM »

Quote
When ever I pull up to a gas station pump (especially on a hot summer day) and see a person yaking on a cell phone while filling up at the next pump I just keep on going. I call it SI (self insurance)

I know of no cellphone that is FM IS rated; if there is one, it is a well kept secret.
Tom
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K5BBC
Member

Posts: 20




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« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2013, 12:02:13 PM »

Quote
As to keying one of these in a combustible atmosphere, there is no radio that is sealed specifically for the prevention of that anyway.  Just as any radio transmission near explosive caps may set them off.  Those safety concerns are a part of the hazards of the job--they're taken into account on an incident by incident basis.

Suggest you check Factory Mutual (FM) Intrinsically Safe certification for commercial two way radios made by Harris, Motorola, EF Johnson, Standard and others.  These radios have special cases with positive internal pressure, contacts, seals around knobs and, even, special, non interchangeable batteries.  Furthermore, field personnel are NOT permitted to repair, or even open, these radios; all repairs must be done at factory repair depots or the FM certification is lost.  They are pricey but, what is paid for, IS safety in hazardous environments including flammable gases.
One way to recognize an IS radio is by the GREEN model number label AND a green dot or label on the special battery.
Tom



Thank you, Tom.  I thought I was the only one.
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2013, 01:31:43 AM »

Quote
Thank you, Tom.  I thought I was the only one.

No.  Anyone who has actually worked around this stuff knows the exercise.  A field tech's job is done once he's completed the depot repair request.
Problem is, though, that too many people grab the keyboard and start typing without having a clue about the topic at hand.  It really mystifies me how often people will risk their credibility by commenting on things without having any experience with the subject.  In the words of Mark Twain, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool that to open your mouth (or start typing) and remove all doubt."
Tom
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2013, 05:06:47 AM »

Suggest you check Factory Mutual (FM) Intrinsically Safe certification for commercial two way radios made by Harris, Motorola, EF Johnson, Standard and others.  These radios have special cases with positive internal pressure, contacts, seals around knobs and, even, special, non interchangeable batteries.  Furthermore, field personnel are NOT permitted to repair, or even open, these radios; all repairs must be done at factory repair depots or the FM certification is lost.  They are pricey but, what is paid for, IS safety in hazardous environments including flammable gases.
One way to recognize an IS radio is by the GREEN model number label AND a green dot or label on the special battery.
Tom

OK, I was in error.  What I should have said is no standard off the shelf radio is made that way.  However, you probably would not find those sealed, pressurized radio sets in the standard complement of fire fighting tools anyway.  The department may--if they're large enough and well enough financed--have some of those sets in a central location for use in that type emergency, but more likely the way that such emergencies would be handled would be to have the firefighters go in without anything likely to cause an explosion on their person.

In any event, the costs of those radios would be even higher than the cost of standard commercial radios that are built to take either inadventant or purposed abuses.  The radios in question here--the cheap Chinese toys--don't even come close to the commercial radios, let alone the expensive, sealed radios you're referring to.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2013, 05:15:01 AM »

...Problem is, though, that too many people grab the keyboard and start typing without having a clue about the topic at hand.  It really mystifies me how often people will risk their credibility by commenting on things without having any experience with the subject.  In the words of Mark Twain, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool that to open your mouth (or start typing) and remove all doubt."

Thanks for being somewhat delicate here, Tom.  The real problem is that I should have known better since I had experience with those things.  Those radios are indeed available, but not on a general basis.  I venture to say that any regular fire department would not have such radios in use--unless they had locations or installations where such equipment was mandated in their areas, and certainly not volunteer departments such as in the subject of this thread.

Yep.  Sometimes I talk without thinking--but we're all guilty of that once in a while.  73.
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2013, 01:23:19 PM »

Quote
I venture to say that any regular fire department would not have such radios in use--unless they had locations or installations where such equipment was mandated in their areas, and certainly not volunteer departments such as in the subject of this thread.

I'm not aware of a Fire agency in the greater Cleveland area that DOESN'T use IS equipment for all their personnel.  That includes all of the smaller communities that the company I worked for serviced.  Got so I began to feel more like a shipping clerk than a repair tech. at times.  Don't know all the forces at work here but I suspect that unions have a strong voice in that issue as ONE of their purposes IS to protect their members' safety.  Many police departments also have a goodly number of those radios as well.  I know that, if I was going into a meth. lab, for example, I'd want one.  You'd be surprised how many of these things are floating around.
Now, its true that many volunteer departments require their volunteers to buy their equipment and I suppose that many of them do cut corners every way they can but, again, I'd never see that kind of (generally used) equipment.

Tom
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N3HFS
Member

Posts: 207




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« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2013, 03:13:56 PM »

Marine band radios are frequently - almost routinely - available as intrinsically safe.  Often, it's only the battery that is different between IS and non-IS models. 

When taking a radio and flashlight with you in an inside engine room or bilge, it's wise not to tempt the vapors.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2013, 04:59:41 AM »

Maybe I'm mistaken, but from what I learned, there is a difference between an intrinsically safe unit and an explosion proof unit.  Could be just semantics, too.  Maybe that's where this difference of opinion is coming from.
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AD1DX
Member

Posts: 44




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« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2013, 06:04:28 AM »

Maybe I'm mistaken, but from what I learned, there is a difference between an intrinsically safe unit and an explosion proof unit.  Could be just semantics, too.  Maybe that's where this difference of opinion is coming from.

Chris,
I work in facility where we use large amounts of solvents.
While the manufacturing areas are referred to as "explosion proof",the terms intrinsically safe and explosion proof are interchangeable as regarding electronic equipment used in these areas.
73
Ceasar
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5861




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« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2013, 08:25:04 AM »

Thanks, Caesar.  Since I AM an older guy who had his limited training back in the 70s, I guess I'm just out of touch.  Goes to show that you learn something new--or relearn things--every day! 73!
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